I am absolutely flabbergasted! Many people will agree when I say it takes a lot to leave me speechless but I must say today I’m dumb-struck! I have just been shown a website which even linking to it gives it life it doesn’t deserve but which I will add against my better judgement just so that people can see it to believe it. Crime Expo SA. There are many statements made on this site which are completely unsubstantiated (I will accept proof from a legitimate source) statistics based on what? It’s a very sad day indeed when some mindless, senseless individual(s) can make it their life goal to act against a country for some personal vendetta. Who is (are) this person (people) hiding behind a website? WHO CARES? My point is not to expose the mind, my point is to expose the fear and hatred the mindlessness is spreading. In order to have my view on this I needed to study all the angles but I’m struggling to understand the purpose of this thoughtless act. What gain does it serve? Save the world from the big bad South Africa? Help the people of South Africa? Or merely stand as a soap-box parade for a clearly disturbed individual(s)? I take pity on this person that has possibly been affected by an act of violence. This however does not give grounds for or condone this style of retaliation thus worsening the situation for everyone.
What kind of comments are these? (Quoted from the site)
- Leave your grandmother at home as she will be killed with a hammer.
- Leave your mobile phone at home as you could be killed for it.
- Keep away from combi-taxis as taxi operators shoot at each other.
They are almost as pathetic as a “statistic” I read in a men’s magazine when travelling in California 5 years ago: “The life expectancy of a tourist in South Africa is 11.5 minutes”. I don’t know what’s worse, the fact they publish this garbage misinformation or the fact that there are people gullible enough to read it! Good news doesn’t sell newspapers. You have just joined the alliance of the insanely naïve. “It must be true cos I read it on the internet”.
He is almost bragging that he has saved some tourists from a certain death. A large (gutless) tourist website in Sweden states that it has allegedly “made us think twice” about tours to South Africa based on half truths this person spreads. Do your own homework Sunseekers & congratulations big man you just perpetuated the vicious circle. Every 8 tourists into SA creates one job! Every job less creates one more homeless individual or perhaps even a homeless family. You are pushing people out onto the street to fend for themselves. “You are taking away their livelihood, and breeding more poverty, hate, resentment and crime“. Put yourself in that position briefly while you are looking down from your pulpit. How would you feed your children? How do you survive? In IR@Q there is scary truth: “What’s the difference between an honest hardworking individual and a suicide bomber? Answer – $5000”. Desperate times call for desperate measures. As much as I loath and despise crime, taking a step back from my reality and placing myself in theirs for a moment can bring a level of understanding. Try it. Survival is mankind’s fiercest instinct. You are, in an indirect way, creating the problem you lobby so strongly against.
Before it is said, I will agree, I don’t know you, I don’t know what you have been through, and I don’t understand your loss or your worries (I do hope this isn’t just some unprovoked tirade to hear your own voice). And yes I will agree that crime is a problem in South Africa but I also believe that it is a problem that everyone should tackle and not just point fingers and be judge, jury and executioner on the tourist industry and people of South Africa. What I can ask though is why don’t you focus your energy on becoming part of the solution and quit being part of the problem? Spread the word through South Africa. Make it known how you feel in a way that has a positive outcome. Your hatred for the most beautiful country on earth is only going to create unnecessary fear and assist in tearing it apart! There is still a huge % of the world’s population that doesn’t even know where South Africa is. The World Cup 2010 will change that and make SA a proud nation once more (remember the Rugby World Cup ’95 and Cricket World Cup ’03). However, if you have your way, it will stay the feared unknown and that will seal our fate. Be a bigger and better person than that and stop being such a one sided bigot. Open your comment section to ALL views, not just the right wing extremists who support your blinkered opinion.
I tip my hat to Addy from Cape Town who has had an unbelievable response in support of his blog. PLEASE support him and everyone else that still believes. Have your say. We need more people like that to spread an unbiased view on life in SA! Kudos to you bud! Keep the ball rolling! Stay in touch!
K.T. – “No one is by any means saying that we are perfect. We are a country in a process. We have the most advanced bill of rights and have conjured up inspirational ways to heal, like the truth and reconciliation council, which is such an advanced way of thinking that even other countries like IR@Q are following suite”.
Looking at this with a brighter persepctive, perhaps South Africa should be thanking you. Thanking you for stirring up dormant emotions in people that do actually have faith in their country and who are prepared to speak up against people or organisations like yourselves.
hoox
July 8, 2006 at 12:20 pm
From: Chris Hookins
Date: 08-Jul-2006 16:18
Subject: Please open your eyes!
To: admin@crimexposouthafrica.co.za
See the damage you are causing.
http://hoox.wordpress.com/2006/07/08/102/
I offer you the chance to comment!
Regards
Chris
Proudly South African!
kate
July 8, 2006 at 12:25 pm
What a complete moron? Adding to the vicious circle that only people with teeny manhoods and big bravados seem to conjure up……YAWN!!! so Boring!!
Being a part of South Africa means we are the lucky few to be part of history, no one said it would be easy, by any means, but we are brave pupils of change and live in the most beautiful place in the world…I would die for my country, and I am a white woman, who for the first time in my life am considering crime as an option to rid the world of people like Neil.
Don
July 8, 2006 at 12:26 pm
From: don@joblog.co.za
Subject: Fwd:
Date: July 8, 2006 14:26:21 GMT+02:00
To: admin@crimexposouthafrica.co.za
See link:
http://www.joblog.co.za/2006/07/how-to-keep-tourists-out-of-the-country
I challenge you to comment and stand up for what you believe to be a good thing.
Don
—
http://www.joblog.co.za/
Addy
July 8, 2006 at 2:44 pm
Hi there guys
Thanks for mentioning my blog. If you know of any other blogs or web sites against SA Expo, please let me know at getdownadam@yahoo.co.uk. I may be able to get a feature for us on IOL.co.za and in Independant newspapers.
Cheers
Addy
Nicky
July 8, 2006 at 4:19 pm
Firstly, a huge shout out to Addy and Chris! I love your spirit! People like you make a huge difference in this world! This country, as many others, is caught up in negative propaganda. It is such a vicious circle – and somehow negativity starts ruling our egos. It is not the ego, but the being that should rule! You have shown this by voicing your positive views. WOW!
I am so tired of destruction, deformation, disease and disasters – it all spells DEATH. Our media thrives on it and so do many others! Our papers are riddled with negativity. The worst part is, that it sells! We are put on this beautiful planet to LIVE. Why have has there been a loss in focus? It is so sad, and I can only pity someone like Neil Watson! His views are so insular and damaging. Mr Watson, look at the bigger picture and stop pitying you!
We are all touched by death…and it is not death that makes a person, it is the ability to make a CHANGE that makes a person!
P.S. Chris – sorry to have missed you in CT, would love to meet you next time around!
LK
July 8, 2006 at 6:50 pm
if I were you I wouldn’t be put off by what this Ignorant individual is talking about. American statistics so far report that South Africa is one of the desired destinations and they aren’t put off by any bad publicity. That’s the American Spirit! There are many negative situations happening in major cities. That alone doesn’t really put any of us Yankees from exploring and visiting new frontiers. Conde Nest in United States reports South Africa being one of the most beatiful and desired desitnations for Americans. There you have it!
hoox
July 9, 2006 at 7:49 am
From: Chris Hookins Mailed-By: gmail.com
To: *** REMOVED ***
Date: 09-Jul-2006 11:43
Subject: RE: Crime in South Africa
I offer a different perspective:
http://hoox.wordpress.com/ – Proudly South African (July 8, 2006) or click on:
http://hoox.wordpress.com/2006/07/08/102/
Stand and be heard.
——————————————————————————–
From: *** REMOVED ***
Sent: Sunday, July 09, 2006 11:24 AM
To: *** REMOVED ***
Subject: Crime in South Africa
To all my overseas friends who ever thought of visiting South Africa…….
Take a look at what is happening on this website
http://www.crimexposouthafrica.co.za
Have a look at the farm attacks, the rape, the robery and other statistics…. a woman raped every 25 seconds….etc etc.
Please send this to your friends who thought of going there.
Regards
*** REMOVED ***
hoox
July 9, 2006 at 8:39 am
From: Chris Hookins Mailed-By: gmail.com
To: Crime Expo SA
Date: 09-Jul-2006 12:03
Subject: Re: Please open your eyes!
Neil
I thank you for your prompt reply.
I dont think anyone is saying that you should ignore the facts. I think what has people so worked up is the fact that you are slating SA to the core and trying to convince the world that it is comparitable to hell. In a way I admire your conviction to stand up and be heard and by the looks of it you are, VERY loudly. And for good or bad, people are listening. All Im suggesting is you channel this anger and passion into creating a solution rather than chasing people away and cementing the problem. Petition and lobby the government, International Aid agencies and other interested parties rather than bleeding your own home from the inside. Post-apartheid South Africa has enough of a stigma to deal with. I have lost track of the times I have been called a “F**king white supremmisist racist pig” or the times when I have seen the shock on people’s faces that Im South African and white. Your website is not helping. Your word is out and you have South Africans turning against their home land.
Im not saying paint a rosy picture, but there must be a happy medium.
Stay commited, to the RIGHT cause!
I wish you happiness.
Regards
Chris Hookins
_______________________________________________________
On 09/07/06, Crime Expo SA wrote:
Ja, I agree
THE FACTS ARE DAMAGING, BUT U CANNOT IGNORE THEM EITHER
Have a great day!
Neil Watson
N + K
July 9, 2006 at 8:41 am
Dear Removed
One week ago a man in the UK got sentenced to 5 years in Jail as a second offender paedophile. He marched his victim a young girl up and down in front of all his fellow “recovering” members in a half way house before he proceeded to rape and sodomise her. This sort of unthinkable incident happens everywhere what’s most shocking is that he only got a 5 year jail sentence….
And here is another link to what’s happening in the States too.
http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/news/14991617.htm
We are not alone and we need to be concentrating on mending the situation rather than adding to the problem…. Please reconsider your very biased website and rather be part of the solution…you have so much energy rather spend it on finding answers to the problems which don’t hurt the situation more than you have already done.
Vincent
July 10, 2006 at 1:01 pm
so whats your point N + K ?
Crime in London? Crime in the states? what? Yeah there is crime everywhere. However at least when you get you car stolen, or mobile nicked theres no rape or death thrown in as an added bonus.
The whole purpose of that CrmieExpo site is shock therapy for the government to get their asses in gear. I hope they lose the world cup, really. Thats the only thing they have on their minds now. Not about fixing things in thier country, but how many kickbacks and freebies they can get. Shit SA is no where near prepared for 2010 anyway.
I left SA, its a shit hole. Theres my opinion
Realist
July 11, 2006 at 11:02 am
I stand by and support http://www.crimexposouthafrica.co.za with every fiber of my being.
Are you going to guarantee tourists safety whilst they visit our levely (read crime ridden) coutry?
Open your eyes.
hoox
July 11, 2006 at 12:09 pm
Mr Realist
You have the right to stand up for anything you believe in and that’s what makes SA such a great country. And you know, in 10 years if Mr Watsons dream to rid SA of all its tourists is successful, you will still have the right to stand up and believe too that you contributed to making it so much worse. Im sure you wont be shouting that out too loud now will you? I never wish for anyones failure expect for really ignorant hopes and goals like the one you support now. Have you ever stopped to consider a South Africa without tourists? You may have a wide selection of sunbeds but we will also have no £, $ & Euro coming in feeding the economy creating more poverty and more crime. Use all your fibers of your being to fight wisely. Try to convince me that slating and butchering your own country is any better than what the common criminal is doing? What that website is doing is borderline treasonous!
Jam
July 11, 2006 at 1:18 pm
Thank you for this inspiring post. As a South African, it gets really tiring when there is so much negativity around a country which is filled with truly incredible people, places and things. I love South Africa dearly, and while it can sometimes be a little harder to live in than other places, the rewards outweigh the difficulties. I also believe that the media is largely responsible for picking on issues here. They have a terrible head space where they seem incapable of actually publishing anything positive or uplifiting.
N & K
July 11, 2006 at 3:27 pm
Dear Vincent
Ahhh smell the bitterness!!! or is that the sweet smell of success…it was all a cunning ploy to get you out in the first place…VOILA SUCCESS!!!! Vincent…babe we will live without you, and we will get by I promise. It is so sad that even South Africans who left our shores still feel they have the right to a little bitch and moan (we know you miss us but seriously clamber down from your groaning pulpit and get on with your new happy life in the US of A or sunny England or Timbuktu!)
We already have the World Cup, we cant lose it!! And did you know CT alone holds more visitors each summer than the Olympics does, so we think we will be ok.
And as for the tid bit about it being a shit hole… shame you should have come hung out with us, very beautiful, nice people, happy faces, hot chicks, cool jobs, wicked things to do on the weekend…
Wishing you all the best in your new home.
Love and hugs
N&K
Nathan Blows
July 12, 2006 at 9:15 am
I posted the link for the crime exposure website on another forum on 06/07/2006. I raised a query about the pictures that he does have (or rather had) under the various provinces. Well, someone recognised the picture posted under Limpopo and guess what? It was actually taken from rotten.com and is not a picture of a genuine SA crime scene. If it cannot be truthful in such a tiny aspect of fighting crime how can we honestly take anything that website says seriously. And what else he not lying about?
I subsequently went back to the on 07/07/2006 to have a look and it had been removed. No pics there that I could see and the website had also changed . Interesting…. On the 10/07/2006 I went back and saw more pictures and discovered the same thing. One picture is genuine and the others? Clipart taken from other websites.
This website might drive investors from South Africa but what is its real purpose? Yes, violent crime is a reality but how will this disgusting, insensitive, garish, vulgar, cynical and sensationalist display help reduce crime in our country? Will it rehabilitate criminal behavior? Will it convince would be criminals to desist from crime? Will it increase the amount of law enforcement agents? Will it reduce corruption? Will it raise education standards? Will it feed hungry mouths?
If it can do these things or affect these changes, then it will have my support but based on such an untruthful start I doubt it. If Neil Watson finds it so easy to lie by using pics stolen from another website how can we trust anything else he says? Shame on him for lying – he’s no better than those he is trying to show up.
However hard I try I can’t escape the fact that Neil Watson has admitted that neither he nor his family has been a victim of crime. How sincere are his intention then? If he had a true idea of the horror would he have approached this subject so flippantly? Why flippant? If you had a look at the “10 TIPS FOR TOURISTS” that appeared on the right hand side of the page. (You couldn’t miss it – it was right under the block selling now taken advertising space) you see why.
Those are horrible crimes – not a tool to sell a website.
His arrogant and condescending replies and dismissal of his non politician detractors who have taken him to task for his blatantly unpatriotic actions share many similarities with a certain cabinet minister who told the whingers and whiners of SA to “shut up or ship out” (basically). The insurance broker from Camps Bay also would also appear to have a vested interest as he is in an industry which would benefit handsomely from this type of fear mongering. And just exactly how much crime does occur in CAMPS BAY?
Drive investors away from this country and who suffers? The people who would have gained employment from such enterprises as would invest here. The jobless, homeless and the illiterate who’s comfort at night is a zinc plate shack – not a house in Camps Bay. We should also not forget that the people who most suffer from violence and violent acts in South Africa are not those who have raised their voices on Mr. Watson’s site. The victims of crime on the Cape Flats, in the squatter camps and other impoverished and violence struck areas are too busy trying to keep alive to log on to the internet and complain and, in most cases, many of these people do not have access to this technology. So who does this website speak for beside the bourgeoisie (black, coloured or white) who sit behind their fenced-in homes in security complexes?
What about the 8 million people across the globe who die from hunger every year? And those in SA who form almost half our population who don’t have something to eat at night, who only have ONE meal a day? How does this help them? Does it protect them? And does it rectify the other factors which help grow crime? No.
Neil Watson’s website looks more like a way to get HIS point across more than a genuine means to actually help the victims of crime and a way to solve the crime problem in South Africa. He seems more inclined to bury South Africa than actually helping it overcome a very serious problem.
What we need is a website like http://www.chicagocrime.org/ which contains actual data and statistics – enough to make it a genuinely useful tool. It’s also devoid of advertising and browsing through it you will notice the distinct lack of country bashing, discouragement of business or attempts to hurt the country.
Jen
July 12, 2006 at 1:00 pm
Hi guys. Thanks for the opportunity to take part in this debate.
I answer to 2 small human males, who ask all the most profound questions about the Universe at the most inappropriate moments!
Because I accept this responsibility, I’ve had to do some hairy soul-searching about the literal & figurative space we occupy. My simplistic response to my thinking kids is that if they act with integrity, which means, etymologically speaking, with soundness & wholeness,all will be well. I’m teaching my children to do the right thing, in spite of others they meet who do not. In my work for an NGO in early childhood development, we make a grass-roots difference in empowering kids & their caregivers in need on a daily basis. Only by example can I expect my children to respect the values I proclaim, & by association, to welcome diverse views, from which to learn.
I’m an African, here for my journey, & would not choose to be anywhere else. My kids are the generation of acceptance & communication, & give me more than adequate reason to be justifiably proud of our people here. Thanks for listening.
Leo
July 12, 2006 at 2:43 pm
A couple of questions to all those opposing this website: Have you ever been the victim of violent crime? Have you seen the naked terror in the eyes of your loved ones when a knife is held to their throats? Have you felt your heart racing when you felt the knife prick on your own neck? Have you sat in a police charge office for hours waiting for someone to attend to your case? Have you explained to the officer on duty how to complete the necessary forms because they didn’t know how? Have you collected evidence on your own accord because the police missed it on the scene of the crime? Have your case documents ever been lost?
Get real people! We have a serious problem here! We need to fix it, the government doesn’t care! I support this effort wholeheartedly!
hoox
July 12, 2006 at 3:05 pm
To Nathan and Jen
Thank you for your comments. Its heartwarming to hear from the people that are still passionate about our amazing country. Be sure to stop by http://southafricamoving.blogspot.com/ every now and then to see developments. Addy needs the support!
hoox
July 12, 2006 at 3:21 pm
And then we have Leo.
Yes, No, No, No, No, No, No. What is the correct answer Leo? Does me saying no to one or more of your little questions leave me void of a right to a comment or opinion on the matter. I truly hope you can answer no to the above as well but Im guessing you are recounting a real experience. I dont envy you that mate and I wish for your safety.
You, along with the Watson support club are however all unfortunately missing the bigger picture and the point that us opposers are trying to make. We are not saying there isn’t something that needs to be done. We are saying, stop painting a picture so dreadful that you turn your own countrymen against their homes.
Ive answered your questions. Now answer mine:
Do you think that scaring the world out of SA is going to make it a better place? How is driving fear into people going to help the desperate? How is chasing people and international investment away going to solve the crime issue in SA? Is publishing false information and plagerised photographs to assist in destroying your home going to make your pain go away? How do you picture South Africa in 10 years if Watson gets his way?
This is as real as it gets.
Victim of Violent Crime
July 12, 2006 at 4:36 pm
I am proudly South African and I live here because i was born here and love living here. In January I took my toddler out the bath tub at Midday and opened my front door to a guest arriving at my house, on returning to the kitchen I was confronted by men with pump action shot guns. They locked me, my guest, my husband and toddler and baby with the barrels lodged against the back of my toddlers head as they counted down from 10 insisting i hand over money guns and my jewellery. After an hour of being harassed and terrorised they left with almost everything we own including our cars. This did not make the paper. Neither did similar events which happened to close friends or family. So if you think crime isnt a problem tell that to my little boys who are now terrified of black males and who think the “bad guys” are coming back! So I thank this guy for having the guts to open up this issue. And
Victim of Violent Crime
July 12, 2006 at 4:59 pm
If you want to learn more about some crimes I would suggest a daily visit to http://www.702.co.za/news/news.asp. Isnt it strange that the government wont allow crime stats to be published and how remarkably coincidental that the same time this site makes international news, the minister of safety and security changes his tune and creates a “task force” to do what the police havent been doing all year… their jobs in catching criminals. I’ll continue to support my domestic worker and her children until I find a job in another country where I feel safe, because in Jhb we are prisoners in our own homes in fear of our lives.
Jakes
July 12, 2006 at 8:00 pm
I applaud your positive outlook and enthusiasm. However, I have a few questions for you. Why is there a moratorium on crime statistics? Why is there a moratorium on the statistics on police killings? I abhor any society where information is being witheld for the “good” of the community.
The unofficial facts are shocking already: 20,000 murders per year, 50,000 REPORTED rapes per year. The reality is probably worse. Translated this means the following: a murder very 25 minutes, a rape every 10 minutes, and those are only the reported cases. How can any police force and justice system deal with such a volume of crime? Answer: they can’t! Why are the crime statistics being withheld through a national moratorium? The answer is easy. It will expose the REAL levels of violent, mindless crime in South Africa, but even more, it will expose the level of INCOMPETENCY in our police and justice systems – people are being paid ridiculously high annual salaries for jobs that they’ve earned due to their support during the struggle years, but are completely incompetent for dealing with the current challenges. That is the par for the course lately – people appointed in positions due to their contribution during the struggle years, but with zero competency or education for dealing with the current situation and challenges. But hey, who cares, they contributed to the struggle years! As long as they receive their dues, and undue salaries, who cares about rape, murder an violent crimes? My message to you is the following: wake up and smell the coffeee!!!
I’ve had to deal with several cases of violent crime over the past three years that have involved my close friends and family. In most cases the police were totally incompetent and even illiterate – I’ve had to point out to them where they were destroying evidence and I’m not even an expert!
Then recently, with the stonings on the N2 from the Airport to Cape Town the police refused to provide information on where the hot spots were. Their message translated into the following: we don’t really care whether people are getting killed by stonings on roads – we are earning our fat cat salaries and F***k you. The MEC of security had a press release over three weeks ago promising that at least 10 police vehicles will be visible at any moment on the N2 between the Cape Town International airpoirt and Cape Town at any moment. Well, it is almost a month later and you will not see ONE patrol car on that road. Remember, that is the only road from the airport to Cape Town – ANY tourist will be subjected to this life-endangering threat, but the police don’t care. In tonight’s newspaper I read that the different police authorities don’t care at all about this – they won’t even respond to calls from the national goverment. Why? Well, as long as they receive their FAT CAT salaries for doing absolutely NOTHING who cares!?
So, applaud the crime expo website for exposing these facts and making it painfully visible and abovious to those LAZY FAT CATS that they need to do something about it!!!
J
Jakes
July 12, 2006 at 8:34 pm
P.S. to the above…
I have the utmost respect for the police members on the ground that have to deal with situations that most people only have to deal with during extreme war scenarios. The levels of trauma in our police service is the highest in the world. I take my hat off to them and I have so much respect and admiration for what they have to deal with every day and by what they do for all of us.
My attack is directed at the management and the politicians. They should be the ones ensuring that the police are well-trained, educated and paid sufficiently. My own – and most other people’s impressions – are that they are more concerned with their own selfish political agendas and their ridiculous salaries than the police members being subjected to some of the most traumatic crime in the world, not even mentioning all the victims of mindless ridicuous crimes in SA. As a result everybody is suffering.
My call is to remove the dead wood and to replace them with people that care about the people, about the justice system, about crime levels, with the right kind of education and experience to actually do something about the situation we find ourselves in. I would worship any such individual – you’ll be my heros!!!
Once I see the right people in the important positions with the correct missions and visions I’ll change my tune about SA heading towards banana republic status. Unfortunately, your skin colour and contribution to the struggle years over more than 10 years ago count more than anything else – irrespective of your education, experience or anything else. Just look at the leadership in some of the youth organisations which get much press exposure. I live in fear of any of those brainless individuals actually getting into positions of power. In my opinion that is just bad and poor leadership!
In summary, once SA starts focusing on people that can produce results rather than focusing on what they did in the past we’ll be a MUCH better society. Get rid of the DEAD WOOD and people harping on the past – support those people producing RESULTS and NOT harping on the past, or trying to boost their own personal agendas or images.
I live for a better SA, and I truly hope we’ll be able to achieve that, but it will require hard, harsh and directed action from the current leaders of this coutnry. I’m holding thumbs…
J
Nathan Blows
July 13, 2006 at 7:27 am
To Leo and all the others who keep on going saying that this website is going to solve the problem of crime, please explain how?
Hype and lies are not going to solve crime. How?
This morning, as it was raining and, as a result I couldn’t take my motorcyle to work, I had to use the taxi. I stay close the route affected by the new spate of taxi violence in Bellville (Cape Town). I see this violence at least twice a year. I’ve been exposed to this type of violence for the past few years. I live in it. Do you think that if I thought the Crime Expo site would solve the problem I wouldn’t support it? But I know it can’t solve the real, honest problem of crime – least of all by lying about it.
Ashamed South African
July 13, 2006 at 10:17 am
Don’t put down the crime xpo site. South Africa is a toilet without a flush. What Mr Watson is saying is exactly the truth. I have been a tourist for the past 9 years to South Africa and have been a victim of crime a total of 7 times.
The police didn’t care, on one occasion told me the robbers were under 18 so no point in arresting them and one policeman even told me he didn’t have the time to take a report of my phone being stolen (which I needed to claim the cost of calls made by the criminal back from my service provider).
The site simply shows what happens in south africa. Nothing is made up. It’s there for everyone to see. This site is not ‘anti south african’ it’s anti crime and quite honestly why should tourists come to SA to bring money as tourists then be victims of crime? Also why should south africans be victims of crime when the government does next to nothing to curb violent crime?
The point is that crime exists everywhere but the difference in SA is that the govt, police, courts do nothing to stop it.
A high percentage of police are corrupt, the non corrupt police are in the minority and are restricted as to what they can do to stop crime. The govt ministers sit in their plush houses surrouned by body guards, drivers security 24 hours etc they don’t care. So long as the stupid tax payer pays their wages to fly around the world in private govt jets representing south africa as a ‘wonderful rainbow nations’ it’s really quite pathetic.
Mr Watson is telling it like it is and the govt should be ashamed of trying bringing the world cup to SA when it cant even clean up it’s act! Get real, wake up SA and realise this place is a DUMP.
hoox
July 13, 2006 at 11:05 am
Right, I just need to clear something up first. What gives you the right to call yourself Ashamed “South African” and then go on to talk how you have been a victim as a “tourist” in South Africa for 9 years. DO you feel like a tourist in your own home? If you were a tourist and returned 9 times after being robbed 7 times, either you dont have much of a learning curve, cant seem to stay out of trouble and would probably getting mugged by Minnie Mouse in Disneyland, or have found an amazing place to visit so quit bitching! And quite honestly I really am getting quite bored of repeating myself over and over. Everyone is AGREEING with you about the crime level. What people are complaining about is the sheer and utter bullshit that Crime Expo Watson and his buddies are putting up there. Photos from rotten.com and “facts” like saying my grandmother is going to get beaten to death with a hammer. Nothing but sensationalist scare tactics. I’ll have you know that my grandmother moved over from the UK just after WWII and has lived to be a ripe old age, God bless her, and she is proud to call herself South African and so are all her grandmother friends! Why doesn’t Watson put some footage from Iraq or Israel or India or or or and call it downtown Sandton?? It would be about his style.
Now lastly, whether or not you decide if you are a South African or a tourist, if you think the place is a dump then fine…. stop being a stupid tax payer, Fuck Off, and infest some other nation with your whingeing and moaning. England is a good start but be prepared for long chats about the World Cup in 1966! And please do yourself a favour and stay away from those big bad football hooligans!
Nathan Blows
July 13, 2006 at 11:18 am
“…Mr Watson is telling it like it is…”
So…when you lie to get the reaction you want it’s ok? As long as the end is one I had in mind it doesn’t matter if I use devious means? I can just say it was meant for good and then my wrong actions are made right?
Ok then! That sounds just like the people in goverment the Crime Expo website is against.
“…The site simply shows what happens in south africa…” In parts of South Africa. This is not the war zone Mr. Watson makes it out to be. The picture he paints tells the world that most South Africans are criminals – the last time I checked the non criminals numbered more.
“…Nothing is made up…” Really? It’s been proved that he lied with some of the pictures he had on the site. What else is he lying about?
“…This site is not ‘anti south african’…” Your right – it’s worse. I does damage to those (the poor etc.) who can least afford it.
As for you claims about corruption, Time magazine recently ran an article on poverty and the links to corruption and yes, it does play a role but not to the extent made out by many.
“…Get real, wake up SA and realise this place is a DUMP…” Well thank you for THAT! Don’t do us any favours ok? We’re not dumb.
PROUD South African Crime Survivor
July 13, 2006 at 12:28 pm
Jeeees… Hoox this must be getting pretty tiresome for you, all these victims and boo hooing. When I had my smash and grab last year the first thing that went through my mind was… “Shit I should have known better to drive around in my hot 4×4 with my expensive handbag on the passenger seat, I am surrounded by poor hungry desperate people”…and then I thought “well at least they got my ID it was the most appalling photo” LOL…But that wasn’t the end when I stopped at a petrol station and I was clearly in shock and you should have see the response from people there, so helpful and kind, they could all see and knew what had happened. Black, Indian and white all came up to me, brought me cokes and chocolates…sugar is good for shock (mind you…might have a chockie, after reading some of these comments) all these South Africans rallied around me, a stranger, and let me use cell phones and cancel cards they were just such a huge help. The police I might add, arrived within minutes, and escorted me home and the councilor at the police station called the next day to give me their cell phone numbers and asked me if I wanted to chat and told me I could call them anytime. Do you know when i got my credit card bill back to have it checked which entries were mine, the ones that were not were for Baby City and Groceries, i am not condoning what they did, but could feel how ashamed and desperate they were.
My second story of woe is even more embarrassing, I got fooled at the ATM by a very smartly dressed kind white woman, who cleaned me out of all R500 that was in my bank, that’s pretty shameful isn’t it?
My Family is filled with community development workers who spend their lives working with the true survivors of crime, the poor, at grass route levels in the townships, and I quote one of them when I say “I have worked with rapists, murderers and in jails and squatter camps my whole life and I have never been scared…the only time I have ever feared for my life was in London by a bunch of drunk Auzzies”
So to the SOUTH AFRICAN TOURIST…. Bru you are relentless, even after the 3 visits you still came back. That must make us pretty darn special.
Crime is everywhere its how you lable it that makes you a victim, All this passion and energy from both sides of the debate means that this county has so many people that love it…lets come up with a solution, so everyone has food and shelter and can live together and not rely on crime to support families
OH and once more for the road….NOONE IS NEGATING THE CRIME, ALL THE POSITIVE PEOPLE ARE SAYING IS THAT WHAT WATSON IS DOING IS MAKING IT WORSE NOT BETTER!
hoox
July 13, 2006 at 1:04 pm
To PROUD S.A.C.S.
Thank You. Thank You. Thank You!!!!
I wish that more people that have had good experiences speak up. There are so many out there. Im really sorry to hear about your misfortune but in a way without that happening you wouldn’t have experienced the support and kindness that so many South Africans have to offer. Perhaps the police and other emergency services are stretched and YES, lets try and sort that out, but where a service is struggling, in step Mr Good Samaritan and let me tell you, there are many of them out there! Keep up the good work you good people! Talking about “samaritans”, in London I was walking to the tube to get home and I saw a bunch of thugs up to no good and bump and push a blind man around so much so that he was disorientated. No oe did anything to stop it. In fact about 30 people pushed past him and his obvious white cane in disgust as he was slowing them down as they were trying to get home. I actually had to force my way through a crowd to get to this guy and lend him a helping and friendly hand. Even then in his distressed state he managed a smile and said “thank you young man”.
We are a culture that looks after each other. Very similar to the Zimbabweans that faced and still face a terrible threat much worse than ours. All they do is talk about how beautiful their land is and how they long to return. You won’t hear them complain and woe about how sorry they are for themselves. They stick together and and have fundraisers to assist those in worse situations than themselves. Check out http://www.rwaf.org
It saddens me when we still have so much power in this still very democratic government of ours, that people are lying back and accepting defeat and trying to make it worse by lying to prove a point. But then again, why mess up a good story with the truth?
Thank you again PROUD S.A.C.S wherever you may be. Thank you for showing everyone that it isn’t all doom and gloom! And thank you very much to all those that helped out that day and every other day! Thank you not stepping past not wanting to get invoved. There are many nations that can learn a lot from us!
NRVS
July 13, 2006 at 1:06 pm
To all those arguing the ‘bigger picture’ of how a site exposing the valid negative aspects of living in SA is contributing to the problem by preventing foreign investment and stifling tourism, I have this to say…
Perhaps you are missing an even BIGGER picture. Foreign investment in South Africa, whether it be from a corporate source or tourism, is generating a large amount of immediate wealth for a small group of people. Yes, there is a somewhat tangible effect on a much lower level, but if you are under the impression the quality of life of this mass of people living in poverty will be significantly affected purely on tourism/foreign capital and the world cup, then I’m afraid your picture is a very, very narrow one indeed.
Strategic initiatives leading to an influx of foreign capital will undoubtably be the long-term solution to a more stable country. However, if a strategy is not supported by effective operational management, it has very little chance of succeeding. And this is what I believe this website’s true value is; trying to make those who benefit from foreign investment first, (corrupt) government officials and (token) BEE partners, aware that the current situation in the country is unteneble. Effectively by hitting them where it hurts – their pockets.
Government officials tasked with implementing improved crime-management policies continue to do the bare minimum because there is little motiviation to add real value. There is no motivation because accountability in (South) African politics is an utterly foreign concept. These individuals continue to live in relative safety and luxury while the majority of the population acts as a buffer between them and the real world.
My feeling is that the crimexpo site may go a long way towards motivating those who deliver policies to create a stable platform for economic growth.
I guarantee you – a society that does not have a mindset and infrastructure conducive to justice and stability will be an utterly inefective area for economic growth – regardless of the amount of foreign investment.
hoox
July 13, 2006 at 1:09 pm
How funny is this?? Im sorry to hear it dude but you just proved a point unknowingly!
An email I JUST received from a mate in London:
werner ****** to hchipungu, a4rawat, anthoniata, bdeswardt …
More options 16:51(13 minutes ago)
Herbert
My phone got nicked out of my hand by some kid on a bike so please can you contact me on jessie’s number 07963 701 ***.
Kind regards
Werner ********
****** removed for party privacy
Lesley
July 13, 2006 at 1:39 pm
I’m happily British – but must say South Africa is my favourite country I have ever been to. It is reasonably priced, diverse, maybe the most beautiful country in the world, and even the crime is over-exagerated.
I lived there for a couple of years, and though I am in the UK again I one day hope to emmigrate to South Africa permanently. Many Brits are in fact moving to South Africa now, and I have yet to meet one who regrets this decision after moving there. I don’t understand the vicious feelings some people have to it, I think it is incredible.
hoox
July 13, 2006 at 1:10 pm
To NRVS
I thank you for your input and to a large degree I agree with you, however, I will comment on a few points that I find a little “narrow” as you would put it.
To quote you, “generating a large amount of immediate wealth for a small group of people. Yes, there is a somewhat tangible effect on a much lower level”.
Yes there will be a large amount of wealth at the top levels. But there will be a lot of wealth across all levels. Lets try and imagine a single English family coming over in the hopes of reliving 1966! Ok. They stay in a rented holiday apartment that they saw advertised. They pay a good $2000+ per week, great location, with a view. It also comes with a domestic worker that has been employed solely to take care of this place as it is now a “guest house” with services. The single mother homeowner stays at a friend so she can let her place out. This tourist family walks down the street to the local bar which now has more staff to deal with the extra crowds. Loads more beer is being sold daily. More fun more tips more jobs. This family goes to the market in town and picks up some nice handmade souveniours for slightly inflated prices owing to their accect and flipent use of the term “damn this place is cheap”….
I dont think I have to carry on spelling out where Im coming from. Many people gain! Yes the corporates will get fat but the poor will also get fed! It’s an economic ripple effect that you are downplaying.
“(corrupt) government officials and (token) BEE partners, aware that the current situation in the country is unteneble. Effectively by hitting them where it hurts – their pockets.”
In your delightful analogy, who do you think is going to get hit harder? Whose pockets are going to empty? The fat cats? Please, you are dreaming! If the fat cat is still in charge and there’s less to go around, do you think they will accept cutbacks? No, the poor get poorer, the needy get needier, and those that had a bit to call their own become desperate muggers or worse.
I will say this AGAIN! I agree with most of it just dont make it WORSE!
hoox
July 13, 2006 at 1:51 pm
Thank you Lesley!
If you are in contact with these Brits that are heading over, lets hear from them. Lets hear the truth!
You are very welcome as long as you bring your good Pounds! Im kidding! You are always welcome and I’m very glad that you have had nothing but a great time in our lovely country.
If by chance we meet one day, I look forward to talking over a few cold ones and reminiscing over “the plonker that tried to ruin this place for everyone”. If you are lucky I won’t even talk about the football but dont hold your breath!
Take care and safe travels!
Nathan Blows
July 13, 2006 at 1:51 pm
Bart Henderson the President of the South African Institute of Corporate Fraud Management has verified that some of the content, specifically pictures used to highlight violence on the Crime Expo site has been taken from sites that are not South African crime sites.
Nathan Blows
July 13, 2006 at 1:52 pm
forgot to add it was taken from rotten.com
hoox
July 13, 2006 at 2:06 pm
…and now I take off my semi-diplomatic hat and say:
“KISS MY F*****NG ASS NEIL WATSON!!!!”
Ok the hat is back on.
Nathan, thank you very much for that! How embarrassing. I guess there’s more to Neil’s comments he made earlier about having had offers from numerous stations but he declined all these offers so that he could focus on the website. It’s herder to lie face to face.
Mr Watson, Now can you please focus on the truth and lets sort the shit out together!
“All South Africans, irrespective of race, have a right to use this webpage in exposing their experiences and fear.”
Only their experiences and fear? What about the good news?
Barry Henning
July 13, 2006 at 4:57 pm
Hi..The following was the response from the Hon.Mr.Charles Nqakula regarding the expo website.
“.The website criticises MEC for Community Safety Charles Nqakula. His department said it was “not the responsibility or interest” of the MEC to comment.”
Is this not typical of the arrogance of the people elected to sort these problems out??
Proud South African.
Doug
July 13, 2006 at 7:11 pm
A 94 year old lady was bludgeoned to death in her home two weeks ago – this is what Neil is saying when he makes the comment about the aged and hammers.
A nine year old girl was raped and bludgeoned and left for dead and was in intensive care for weeks. Her grandmother says she is like a 4 year old now.
An eleven year old was gang-raped . An 80 year old woman gangraped . A long gun battle at a large taxi transport terminus erupted yesterday. A ten year old pleaded for life and watched his mother being shot dead in front of him. Between Thursday and Monday I know of 8 instances of violent crime that happened to work colleagues that did not make the newspapers .
My neighbours nephew was shot dead in the main road in the southern suburbs 3 years ago – criminals still free after 28 court hearings . Criminals out on bail killed a 76 year old woman and raped her pregnant neighbour.
Please Hoox – read our newspapers – hear the cry from the people – from people that cannot walk on their beaches , mountains – across the road or to their car without worrying – hear the cry of the children who are raped and killed.
Neil’s website is that cry . It is a cry for all South Africans who are scared for their lives and for their children’s lives .
Do you have children Hoox ? Do you not by some small chance have empathy for the 50 000 people raped per year – this is not a lie – this is a real statistic – only 50 000 REPORTED rapes . How many not reported ? The statistics of 347 armed robberies a day reported on E tv – not lies Hoox – the Truth .
Try to put yourself in the shoes of the parents of a “missing child” – a raped child – a murdered child . A raped or murdered mother or father or brother or sister . A tortured to death uncle or aunt or grandmother or grandfather .
Neil and his website are only telling it like it is . It is not being made up . Yesterday’s Cape Argus reported that the police cars are under attack by stoning on the road between the Cape Town international airport and the city . The police Hoox – not the civilians who get stoned to death – the civilians who get raped and killed if their car breaks down on the national highway – the POLICE force themselves are under attack. The police force that pays security companies to guard their Police stations .
This is not being unpatriotic to tell the truth – to demand the right to live freely and be protected under our CONSTITUTION .
We were born and live in South Africa – our children are born here – so why would we want to destroy the country by lying . We are just telling it like it is . Imagine a 10 year old child in a large city with hardened criminals walking around – that is what will happen to naive innocent tourists that have no idea that by walking from their hotel to the theatre they stand a good chance of being killed , mugged , raped – sound a bit farfetched ? Ask the family of the Lord of the Dance production guy shot in the head walking 2 blocks to the theatre were the show was on . It will be like taking candy off a baby if the world tourists do not know what it is like on the ground here.
All Neil is doing is exposing the truth – why shoot the messenger Hoox ? Please read the newspapers daily and listen to the news and the radio and if you still think its best to shut the messenger up – come to Cape Town and walk freely up the mountain – take a walk on Norrdhoek beach and then stop your car on the N2 – get out and walk for 25 minutes at 8 pm at night and tell your fellow South Africans you meet just how patriotic you are and how pleased you are to meet them.
MORE GOOD NEWS!!!
July 13, 2006 at 7:59 pm
aghhh shame Passport Thrasher (appropriate in this discussion? haha), you seem like a nice guy but no one seems to be listening to you!!!…another person called Doug missing the point completely…I am about to give up for you, this must be getting so boring. Just thought I would brighten your day with some reported facts from the Cape Times July 13th 2006, Pg 5…
TITLE: SA Tourism Leaps Ahead….”The figures are certainly impressive. according to Statistics South Africa (Stats SA), the country’s tourism industry has experienced growth of over 100% since the demise of apartheid in 1994.
And the number of international visitors has since increased from 3.6 million to 7.3 million by 2005″
TITLE: Africa Boasts the fastest growth in tourism,
“Africa Exhibited the fastest growth in the number of tourists arriving on the continent and in the amount they spent, according to the UN World Tourism Organisation (UNWTO), which has released its tourism receipts for last year.
The number of international arrivals in Africa grew from 28.2 million to 36.8 million between 2000 and last year.
The latest UNWTO World Tourism Barometer showed Africa was the only region in the world to perform better last year than the year before in international arrivals growth.
The report said that according to preliminary data, the growth trend has continued into this year.
“Confidence in this destination’s tourism is high as a result of increased marketing from SA Tourism in existing and emerging markets.”
“The ONLY negative influences have been the strong Rand – although this has softened somewhat in the past months and South Africa is still seen as a good-value-for-money destination – and the fragile political situation in neighbouring Zimbabwe.”"
by Dominique Herman
Thought this would make you happy to know that although people as evil as Neil Watson (a criminal in his own) are trying to ruin our beautiful country even more, the real stats are showing that we are right on track.
Crying out LOUD
July 13, 2006 at 8:13 pm
Doug Doug Doug…come now boet, you cant be serious that you have read all these comments and need for these poor people to repeat them selves again and again….
We are all concerned about crime in SA but for pity sake no one is disagreeing with you. IT IS A PROBLEM…but, and wait for it coz it’s a big repetitive, BUTT……..stopping tourist from coming to SA is only going to make SA and our people, you and me and your gardener and your maid and your boss and the guy who works in the post office…WORSE for all of us. I am in the tourism industry and I have never had a bad experience and neither have any of my hundreds of tourists they love it here and come back often, bring all their hard earned Pounds, Euros, Dollars with them. We need them to survive and without them we will all suffer. We know what it feels like to be excluded by the rest of the world and it wasn’t pretty then, and the crime was less, so I guarantee you it wont be pretty now.
All the Kind patient positive folk at Passport Thrasher I love and thank you for taking a stand.
Nathan Blows
July 14, 2006 at 6:33 am
Doug, please read:
“..Bart Henderson the President of the South African Institute of Corporate Fraud Management has verified that some of the content, specifically pictures used to highlight violence on the Crime Expo site has been taken from sites that are not genuine South African crime sites (in fact taken from rotten.com)…”
Nathan Blows
July 14, 2006 at 6:43 am
And Doug, you say your stay in Cape Town. Really? So do I. Wierd how the places you mention are such war zone’s all off a sudden. AND – I stay on the Cape Flats – some of the worse crime hit areas in Cape Town. No-one is saying crime is not happening nor that we WANT it to go on. We are against the way Neil Watson is lying (as now proved – see previous posts).
NRVS
July 14, 2006 at 7:56 am
Arguiing that crime isn’t THAT bad is absolutely ridiculous. Many of us have been exposed to it. I have been a victim of armed robbery once and a murder witness twice. All within four years of living in Cape Town CBD. Also, the majority of crime victims are people who do not have access to this message board and the internet.
Yes, tourism creates jobs and does alleviate the effects of poverty on the areas that are heavilly affected by it.
BUT…
Violent crime is not hunger-motivated. Hijackers, murderers and rapists do what they do far several very complex sociological reasons. Putting food on the table is not one of them. We have a far deeper problem in this country than a superficial influx of money is going to solve.
We need proper policing and a commitment to improving law enforcement to create a country where foreign investment is going to have the long-lasting effect it should. Foreign investment will continue to only address superficial symptoms of poverty untill the goverment does its share to create a society that lends itself to social upliftment.
Nathan Blows
July 14, 2006 at 9:06 am
“…Arguiing that crime isn’t THAT bad is absolutely ridiculous…”
No one has said that. You don’t seem to read anything do you? Before storming in to get your point across – READ and UNDERSTAND what people have said.
NRVS
July 14, 2006 at 9:20 am
I paraphrased – get over it.
Perhaps you’d like to comment on the real issues I raised in my post as opposed to simply splitting hairs?
Nathan Blows
July 14, 2006 at 10:34 am
“…Perhaps you’d like to comment on the real issues I raised in my post as opposed to simply splitting hairs?…”
Like. You mention a few things which would take another blog on it’s own to comment on. In particular I liked the whole bit that starts with “…Violent crime is not hunger-motivated…”
You supply closed statements on that whole section providing no room for feedback. No matter, the greater question is, “How does the crimexposouthafrica.co.za website solve those issues mentioned?”
That’s what’s at the core of this blog. Will it provide for those things you see lacking? And improve the situation? I raised similar issues in my first post.
The answer – no.
Mitch
July 14, 2006 at 2:02 pm
‘Khayelitsha is the most violent, lawless place in South Africa and nothing is being done to change that reality.’
Yes, the day I’ve been dreading for so long has finally come. I’ve been robbed, at gunpoint.
Early on Friday morning, May 26, as I was on my way to Nongqubela train station in Site B Khayelitsha, I was robbed by two youths. A gun was pressed against my chest, hard, and I was ordered to hand over my cellphone and my backpack. Then the two young men simply turned away and robbed another woman who was coming behind me. I heard her cries, but I couldn’t do anything.
Still numb from shock and shaking, I go to the police station to report what has just happened. On the way there, I tell myself I’m not going to cry — I’m going to be strong. I’m so hurt, but strangely, there’s no anger inside. All I feel is pain, loss and sadness. I try to speak to the officer but nothing comes out. And then, I start crying.
When I regain my composure, I open my eyes to see two officers staring at me. They ask some questions and I answer. They tell me to report this to my cellphone network and have the phone blocked.
As I leave, one officer says to me, “Hayi sisi, these things happen.” I take this as his way of comforting me, and though I would have preferred him to get into a police car with me and search for the thieves, I say “thank you” and leave.
On my way to the train station, I think about what the officer said. And I know he’s right. I knew it was just a matter of time before this happened to me. I knew I was living on borrowed time.
Imagine: aged 25, living in Khayelitsha and never been robbed! Here violence is our daily bread. I’ve seen people being beaten up, neighbours stabbing each other in the street, a man hacking his wife with a panga, rapists paraded, stark naked, on the street by angry residents. I’ve seen thugs throwing bricks at a youngster while he lay helplessly on the ground, and I’ve seen thugs shooting at each other. With all the shootings and stabbings, sometimes you think you’re in a war zone.
A while ago, while my mom was watching TV, a bullet came through our window and hit the wall, missing her by an inch. In just two weeks last year, she was robbed twice at gunpoint. All her friends have been robbed; one was robbed as she was locking her front gate.
My mom no longer takes the train to work; she now uses the bus and doesn’t have to leave the house so early in the morning. But this doesn’t really guarantee your safety.
Just last week while my mom was on her way to the bus stop, she met a woman walking down the street crying hysterically; apparently they robbed her and her daughter, also at gunpoint. My mom said the woman had soiled herself. I’ve heard some people wet themselves when they’re frightened.
While waiting for the train, I hear three girls talking about crime — two of them have just been robbed. And guess by whom? Yes, by the same tsotsis that robbed me earlier. It’s a bad dream. I can’t believe what I’m hearing. Can someone please tell me, where else in the world does this happen? The girls say that another middle-aged woman had her bag snatched. Can you imagine how many people these boys robbed this morning?
For now, I’m feeling relieved that my life was spared and, in a funny way, to know finally how it feels to have a gun pointed at me. I knew one day it would happen. That’s my world. I live in the most violent, lawless place in South Africa and nothing is being done to change that reality. Perhaps the next time it happens (and I promise you it will), I won’t hurt so much.
Hazel Makuzeni
Mitch
July 14, 2006 at 2:05 pm
Is South Africa a dangerous place to visit?
Zola Mkatshane, First Secretary of the South African Embassy in Warsaw, talks with Iwona A. Czerwińska of Warsaw Voice.
Iwona: ”Some people are afraid that South Africa is a dangerous country. Is it true?”
Mkatshane:
”It depends on what you are looking at. South Africa as a developing country does have crime that is socially and economically induced. It is also not a widespread phenomenon and the Government is doing all it can to put it under control. Having said that, I think it is common knowledge that all countries rich or poor are crime ridden including Poland, but of course, some are more dangerous than others and definitely South Africa does not form part of the former group. The best advice for any tourists or foreigners anywhere in the world is to avoid “no-go” areas and stick to the local security advice.”
Jan
July 15, 2006 at 2:19 pm
- “Taking a shower after having sex will reduce the risk of getting AIDS.” By a former head of the National AIDS Council.
- “Western medicine against AIDS? Just eat some garlic from your garden. Also good for your skin.” By Dr. Garlic herself (also minister of health by the way).
- “Get robbed/raped/killed or get out of the country.” By the minister of safety.
I don’t know. But being responsible for their duties is not part of the job description here. How can an irresponsible government ever make the country safe again? Please help me!! I don’t know.
Doug
July 15, 2006 at 7:58 pm
Nathan Blows – cold – I am afraid .
For Nathan says he stays in Cape Town – and has not heard that tourists and locals alike are attacked in Deer Park – do you know where that is Nathan Blows ?
Nathan does not know that people are held at knifepoint/gunpoint
and have been raped at Noordhoek beach and the police have stated that no-one should walk alone as they had arrested a group that was terrorising and robbing people on Noordhoek beach -but they were back within three weeks – Cape Argus
The N2 – surely Nathan you know the National Road that has been and is still under attack by constant stonings – again the Cape Argus – I find that if you read it daily you become aware of what is actually going on .
And to “Crying out Loud” – if I was going to visit another country which is advertised so nicely and spend my hard earned money there and take my family with – I would be most pleased and grateful if some honest people told me before I walked in that country’s streets at night or on a beach with my family or in a public park or to the theatre or took a taxi or hired a car and broke down on their Naional highway – just what I was getting my family and myself into – that it was unsafe and I would be able to make an informed decision.
Please try to think like a first world innocent person living in a normal country where you can have a picnic in Hyde Park and not get raped/mugged / murdered – where you can get on the train and not get attacked – walk to places without etc etc etc etc —- they are NOT AWARE of just what easy targets they are – morally it is right to warn tourists – the world – on what is going on here – we cannot walk our streets at night – hell we have to be careful getting into cars in our own driveway.
And if Neil Watson’s site – pictures excluded – stops one tourist from not walking out of his hotel to the Waterfront by himself at 10.00 pm at night and saves his life – it is worth it . Life is cheap in South Africa – but to some people it is morally wrong to pretend all is right here – and not warn them that they stand a one in twenty chance of crime happening to them. And the bonus to this site is that it might actually force our “safety minister ” actually do his job so that we can live safely in our country.
Most tourists won’t be visiting Iraq or Lebanon now as it is quite unsafe – but they are informed by the news or by tourism agencies that it is not safe .Well if more people are killed and raped in South Africa in the same period as the war in Iraq – shouldn’t they have a right to know the dangers of the country.At least then they can make an INFORMED decision – not a marketing lie .
Here is a point for Nathan Blows : -
Charles Nqakula tells whingers of crime they can leave the country.
Does Neil Watson leave the country ? No – he creates a website where everyone who is a victim of crime can be heard .
What do you do ? Your vitriol about him living in Camps Bay and how much crime happens there is your argument . But — Butttttt
he reports of crime everywhere – from Crossroads to Claremont – from Mowbray to Manenberg – from Camps Bay where Brett Goldin and his friend where attacked and hijacked and transported and shot through the head by Cape Flat gangsters.
“So who does this website speak for beside the bourgeoisie (black, coloured or white) who sit behind their fenced-in homes in security complexes?” – Nathan Blows – July 12, 2006
How dare you make that statement Nathan ?
It is not normal to be locked up in security villages – it is survival .
No-one wants to be imprisoned in their own homes – it is forced – if you can afford it – but that does not mean it is wanted – it is not normal – have you ever been to a first world country – have you ever been to Dubai – London – Paris – Amsterdam – New Zealand etc etc
It is exactly your mindset that suggests Neil should not warn tourists who are not used to living in the way we have to that they have to be careful and informed when coming here.
Have you been on a train in London – you can easily identify the South Africans – everyone else puts their bags to one side of the train and are relaxed – Look down the middle of the train – the people with luggage on their lap – or by their feet and watching their belongings are all South Africans .
- All people are crying out – but yes how do they get their voice heard – from people like Neil Watson – from murdered people like Brett Goldin – they are not going to get their voice heard from people who are struggling to eat – and by the way – what does the fact that ” 8 million people who die from hunger every year ” have to do with Neils website or South Afica’s crime rate ? – if the government actually takes responsibility for curbing crime – then crime will abate in Camps Bay and the Cape Flats .
What do you think the majority of South Africans would say in a referendum on the death penalty – do you think only the “bourgeoisie” – it might be the ” i ” inside – would vote yes or do you think the majority of this country would vote yes.
This country is a prison – and it is not easy to leave the land – nevermind that the “safety and security” minister’s wife who is supposed to run the home affairs dept where you might have to wait 2 years to get a passport – again read the Cape Argus for info on this – it is that people like Neil Watson really believe that maybe – just maybe – someone in power will do something about the murders and rapes in South Africa if the truth is told – really – even if he just broadcasts to the world what we read in our legitimate newspapers daily – no pictures needed – and forces the powers that be to do something – then we will not have to leave the country of our birth because of murderers and rapists .
How do you justify the need for tourists money for the real risk they face in this country ?
Arrie
July 15, 2006 at 9:06 pm
Just came back from South-Africa after a 2 week visit. Left SA 5 years ago. It’s a no go zone and I will never return to SA. It’s a dark black country with no law and it is corrupted as hell. If you think it’s ok to live in SA you must be a criminal.
Aikona
July 15, 2006 at 11:56 pm
Check out http://www.realsouthafrica.co.za
Jan
July 16, 2006 at 12:39 am
Dear Aikona,
How long does it take before all insurance companies abroad will not insure anymore for travel to SA? They measure the claims better than the SA government does!
How long does it take that foreign embassies will advise companies not to invest in SA anymore?
How long will the brain drain go on? In more safe countries educated
people are more than welcome! Have you ever thought about the long term results of that?
How is your long term vision anyway? I don’t think you worry much about your own offspring.
Tell me Aikona. Why are you waiting until tourist will not come anymore because they figured out themselves that it is not so safe? I tell you, they will figure out! Is it for so many people so difficult to think ahead?
Of course, you are right. With so many people with a European origin, it feels safe for foreigners to get in and that is exactly the reason why they are still coming! But for how long?
Please, give me your comments! I want to learn too!
BYE BYE ARRIE THE FLY
July 16, 2006 at 11:24 am
Arrie…Thanks for that! I have just come back from a holiday in CT and JHB and I cant tell you how much fun I had. Holidays are what you make of them and I didn’t feel unsafe at all…in Fact I had such a good time I am moving home as soon as i can.
Stay where you are Arrie you are not missed at all. To call SA dark Black must mean that you are a very negative person, and you clearly have no friends…coz I cant believe that EVERYONE you know has left and if there are people that you know who are still here then they must be criminals too. Firstly I don’t think they would appreciate you saying that about them and secondly if you did REALLY believe your left behind family members and friends were in fact criminals then you would know better than i would and we need to start a whole new blog making a plan on how to get rid of them, YOUR MATES!
coz we really don’t need your types here at all.
Mario
July 16, 2006 at 1:57 pm
Hoox, Hoox, Hoox….. Are you that ignorant? I would love to hear what you would say the day you got home one day and found one, two or three even more of your family members lying in a pool of blood with their throats slit and their eyes still wide open from the fear they experienced in the their last seconds… (and I truly wish for this not to happen). Neil Watson has the balls to expose the crime situation in SA. The SA Government has had thousands of pleas from desperate South Africans (all races) and they have done absolutely nothing about it. Come on man, catch a wake up and smell the shit going on. Crime in that country is affecting everyone, Black, White, Pink, Purple and Blue. The bottom line is that Crime in SA is real. I have seen it with my own eyes. Crimexposouthafrica has nothing to do with any personal vendetta. What you read on there is the real thing, no frills, no added preservatives, just pure truth mate, unedited truth.
Have a good day
Mario
hoox
July 16, 2006 at 3:02 pm
Mario Mario Mario.
Let me start by saying Im getting really sick to death of saying the same shit over and over and over. Do people just feel they need a brain fart and dump on this page?
I will spell it out for you:
Crime in South Africa? – YES
Let’s make it worse? – NO
It has been proven that your superhero Watson has put up photographs taken from rotten.com depicting acts of violent crime or war realted incidents from other parts of the world. Shock therapy is one thing. Fiction is something else completely. …”real thing, no frills, no added preservatives, just pure truth mate, unedited truth”. Credibility shot down in a blaze of glory! Sure, do it. Just do it right and at not the further expense of the innocent.
Oh and Mario. Please do me a HUGE favour! Next time you see pink, purple or blue South Africans, do take photographs. I will put them up on this site and give you all the credit! I’ll make you famous!
Doug
July 16, 2006 at 6:46 pm
Mario – please understand that Hoox ‘s view is obvious – and will not change through debate -
It is okay for tourists to come spend their money in South Africa because the country will get worse if they don’t.
They do not need to know what is really happening here because that would be unpatriotic.No-one needs to warn them.
Crime is bad – but if we don’t get tourists money – it will get worse.
Sensatiolism – like “Pregnant woman raped” , “Family tortured”,
“Nine year old raped” , “Eleven year old gang-raped and left for dead ” , “Guest House owner murdered” , ” Tourist in intensive care after attack” ,etc etc – is not what South Africa should let the world
know – we should shut the hell up – or leave .
It seems that even the unpatriotic Fedhasa has joined the traitor Neil
Watson as : – FEDERATED HOSPITALITY SA (FEDHASA) WARNED CRIME SITUATION IN SA IS DETERIORATING VERY FAST – mmmmm….
Its a damn conspiracy Mario – all these whingers should leave – please just try to understand – all the people who have left the country of their birth , all the people moaning about crime , all the victims of crime , all the letters to the newspapers —- its all a plot to discredit South Africa from tourists and foreign investors.
The call is clear to all tourists to come over to this glorious country and spend spend spend – and no-one must warn them or let the world know the dangers they will face by just walking in the streets at night – or even in the day . As an example of Neil Watson’s unpatriotic drivel – it is morally wrong to make a statement on his website that ” Leave your grandmother at home as she will be killed with a hammer” – Hoox – July 8th .
It does sort of matter that a 94 year old was bludgeoned to death with a hammer – its just that we should not tell the world .
Things like “Leave your mobile phone at home as you could be killed for it.” – has been proven incorrect – as even in your home you will get bludgeoned to death – 86 and 83 year old Joburgers had cell phone stolen after being bludgeoned with bricks and a spade wich was broken in half from the force used on the wife.
But thats not why it should not be on Neils website – he should not be telling these things to others – pictures or no pictures
He should keep these stats hidden from the outside world .
I just hope that the national newspapers and radio stations like Radio 702 and the Sunday Times keep on the pressure to dismantle this traitor – how dare he warn people .It is not investor friendly.
Oh and Mario – please do me a HUGE favour – if you can get photo’s of that couple in their eighties that were beaten up so badly – I think their colours will be pink , purple and blue – send them to this site – as Hoox will put them up here – and you won’t have to look at the fake ones on Neils website – Hoox will make you famous.
Mario
July 16, 2006 at 8:09 pm
Doug, I hear you. Unfortunately Hoox cannot make me famous… I am already famous.
You have a good one.
NRVS
July 17, 2006 at 4:30 am
Doug – good post mate. But you forgot to mention the childish notion prevailing on this site that tourists and the money they bring in will somehow buy criminals a conscience. Somehow everyone is under the impression that there is a certain amount of money that’s going to come into SA one day that will finally convince the gangsters and organised crime syndicates to change their ways.
hoox
July 17, 2006 at 4:34 am
OMG Mario, I really didn’t think people still used that line. Isn’t it interesting how famous people don’t have to remind everyone how famous they really are. But that is completely besides the point. Moving on.
Doug, Mario, and everyone else here, I am only going to say this one last time. I hear you! I understand what you have to say. I know there is crime in South Africa. I know something has to be done about it. I’m not denying the fact but all I am saying is do it properly. If I have a really shit car with some seriously broken parts, I think we will all agree that kicking it, calling it names and telling everybody how shit it is, taking it’s wheels away and then isolating it from the fleet, is NOT going to help. We need to find a way of getting inside the engine and repairing the damage or the car will sit and rot away into nothing.
Doug, I am a little perturbed by your statement “Mario – please understand that Hoox ’s view is obvious – and will not change through debate”. You don’t know me, or see the things I see every day or know what I live through so please don’t assume things or speak for me with or without sarcasm. I will have you know, for what it’s worth, that I’m completely open for debate when I hear valid arguments. I only get defensive when I feel that I, or people and things that I care about are just being spat at thoughtlessly. I am very close to unbelievable people who have actually gotten off their asses and dedicated their lives unconditionally to making a difference in this world and more specifically, South Africa. Working with the poor to create sustainable development; Creating environments that generate pride and well being in themselves and in turn their community; Creating good lives that if had been left to rot in poverty would have joined the world of crime from nothing but lack of choice. I’m sure you dont care to know but I will tell you anyway. They are disappointed by the underhand, backstabbing techniques of Crime Expo SA. Rather support them and all the good they are doing.
Ok Doug, I will stand back, you have the floor. Since you and Watson have thought about this so carefully, in all your combined infinite wisdom, convince me how Neil’s plan of ridding South Africa of all those pesky tourists and international investment and removing South Africa from the world stage in 2010 is going to assist the situation. Give us your plan for success.
Ladies and Gentlemen……. Doug
hoox
July 17, 2006 at 4:41 am
NRVS
Get with Doug and help him convince the world of your guys master plan! And the “childish notion” that you speak of is an unblinkered view and hope for the future. Be proactive and not reactive! In 10 years it will be too late when you realise that it all went horribly wrong. You are also missing the point.
NRVS
July 17, 2006 at 6:19 am
I would have thought it quite obvious, but if you need it spelled out again, here it is.
A nation’s governement has several responsibilities to its citizens. One of these is to enforce justice. If the government does not fulfill this responsibility but does what it can to promote the country’s image as a safe and happy ‘rainbow nation’ to the rest of the world while millions of law abiding citizens suffer, perhaps the only way to refocus the attentions of the politicians back where they should be, is to make the rest of the world aware of what is ACTUALLY happening. So that pressure may be applied to them to actually start doing what they are supposed to do – creating an environment condusive to social stability and growth.
Now that I have said my piece on this, let me ask you a question… Do you honestly think that foreign investment on its own will save this country? Do you think that all we need to do with this problem is to throw dollars and euros at it? Do you not think that foreign investment needs a stable platform in order to be effective? Without social stability (and this relates to many other issues aside from violent crime such as political; and corporate corruption, AIDS policies, provision of health and many other areas where the government is failing miserably) foreign investment will continue have only the following effect: 1 – address poverty on a superficial and unsustainable level and 2 – make a lot of money for individuals who have strategic positions within the government and corporate sector.
The website’s tone is not subtle and can come accross as a little self-righteous. It is an uncompromising and controvertial site, but, in many frustrated, angry people’s view, it is valid. I agree because I feel that making the international community aware of what is happening here may motivate the goverment to do their part for the upliftment of our society.
hoox
July 17, 2006 at 6:55 am
As seen on JoBlog:
Phil Says:
July 14th, 2006 at 12:35 pm
I think a lot of the negativity generated about the Anti Crime site is by people who are shocked by the contents of it. As an ex policeman I can assure you that the images and incidents are of the type of REAL events that have been occurring in SA for years. These crimes affect all races except the powers that may be, sitting behind security and bodyguards paid for by us, the taxpayers. Mr. Mbeki is extremely outspoken against gated estates etc, yet he is the most protected man in SA. If SA is safe why doesn’t he lead by example?
It’s about time someone took a stance and spoke about the daily atrocities that can be likened to a war environment. Compare our death rates to Iraq/Afghanistan and try to argue against this!!
As for the world cup, finally there is an incentive that actually forces the government to do something.
As for the R3.00 ?? Small price to pay if the website has repercussions that save even one life.
________________________________________________________
Hoox Says:
July 17th, 2006 at 7:25 am
Phil
“Compare our death rates to Iraq/Afghanistan and try to argue against this!!”????
What kind of a statement is that? Here’s my arguement: I live/work in Iraq and can assure you there is no comparison. I cant publish numbers but as an ex-policeman, Im guessing that you may have contact with someone who had/has been over here working as PSD and you can get the truth from them (I apologise if my assumtions are incorrect). The numbers here are shocking. Im not about to get into a pissing contest of which country is worse. All Im asking is that you dont compare SA to a country ridden with extremist sactarian violence and ethnic cleansing. You make Watson’s site look like a Tourist Welcome Pack
hoox
July 17, 2006 at 6:59 am
Check out : http://www.realsouthafrica.co.za
Voting seems pretty neck on neck.
Nathan Blows
July 17, 2006 at 11:44 am
Doug, Mario and NRVS> You guys crack me up. Especially you Doug. Don’t make out as if I am in denial about crime. That’s such a wonderful perversion of my words. You reply comes across as someone stung by those words and seeks to discredit them. After all it’s easier to discredit another person than to admit your own failure. Good on you. How does a negative idea promoted by negative actions aimed at presenting a negative picture of our country promoting negative reaction against our country and placing negative pressure on the government result in a postive change? Never in the history of the world has such an equation resulted in a positive outcome so how can we expect it to happen now?
No, history has proven time and time again that positive ideas backed by positive action has resulted in the most tumultous positive reactions and outcomes. If you can ignore that highly evident fact then…well ja. However being positive isn’t enough and has never been. Those who engage in trying to make this country a better and more positive place need to and have to be focussed, resilient, determined and aware that a change is not going to happen overnight. Some ideas will work and some will fail. The answer doesn’t lie on Neil Watson’s website nor with his supporters who all subscribe to the negative idea and it’s negative actions and reactions. Neither does it lie in leaving the country.
it is with incredulity that I listen to people go on about the fact that there’s only so much one can do. On cross questioning them you find that the only thing they have done is complain among themselves and nothing else. Have they set up anti-crime drives? No. Have they set up empowerment programs for victims of crime and education programs to rehabilitate the criminal? No. Have they taken their responsibility as a citizen and lobbied government for change? No. Have they helped, in any way, organisation after organisation who continues to fight (unheralded) for the betterment of our country? No. Have they set up such an organisation? No.
I can go on and get the same answer. Being a citizen of a democracy (new or mature) is a serious responsbility and requires hard work. Democracy and a positive society don’t just happen – they are ideals that we as a people have to work hard at and for – and many times the changes are rung not by the government but it’s people. If you can’t see past the negativity in this country you will never be able to enact a positive change. Democracy and a positive society is hard work – if you’re not prepared to put in the hard work, don’t moan.
“…Ask not what your country can do for you but what you can do for your country…”
NRVS
July 17, 2006 at 1:06 pm
Nice and positive but ultimately useless post. Any chance you want to address the issues I raised in my posts or do you find it easier quoting idealistic political rhetoric.
The concept that a negative action cannot correct another is not feasible. Any person who takes this stance will also have to agree that the concept of economic sanctions, and any form of punitive global regulation is similarly innefective; which is patently untrue.
Nathan Blows
July 17, 2006 at 1:39 pm
Hardly useless. It would only be useless if you want to keep a negative view of South Africa. Addressing your issues raised here would be useless as they would not affect a change. Also the answers I would provide would exceed the bounds of this blog. They need to be addressed in the real world with real actions – not actions in the virtual cyber world. Idealistic rhetoric? The idea that democracy needs to be worked at and citizenry earned? Hardly. If you can’t work toward an ideal you should not complain when the end you envision does not come into being. The essence of democracy is government by the people – if the people are lazy then they can hardly blame the government when they failed to be the balances and checks against the government. And a person who took the stance against the negative actions I mentioned need not agree that sanctioning et. al were ineffective. They were proven to be highly effective – I’m not stupid neh?
Mario
July 17, 2006 at 5:44 pm
Hoox, Nathan… What you guys are writing makes very interesting reading, but I am getting rather dizzy from going around in circles. Since the “New Government” came into power, thousands of South Africans have been working so darn hard at making SA a great country, a country to be proud of. How many lives have been lost in doing this? How many lives must still be lost to achieve absolutely NOTHING? Unless the Government does something major about it, nothing will be achieved. The Government does not give a toss about its people. No matter how you look at it mate, face the fact and reality, until this Government takes the initiative to do something about the situation, the country will keep going downhill. The unfortunate thing is that the longer it’s left to go that the way, the longer it will take to get it right. The only way to get their attention is to hurt them where it hurts…. their pockets. Even then, their ignorance and stupidity might get in the way.
Have a great evening people.
IITQ
July 17, 2006 at 6:36 pm
My letter to Mr Watson – from my blog
Mr Watson
I read with alarm that you are launching http://www.crimeexposouthafrica.co.za. Your stated aim is to “disillusion and disgust” foreigners. The website will be launched today and is aimed at discouraging foreigners from coming to South Africa because of the crime here.
You have said the website will insist on answers from the world soccer association, Fifa, “Fifa must explain to the international community why the murders of thousands of people were ignored when the 2010 Soccer World Cup was awarded to South Africa.”
You have emphasised that the website will exceed all bounds, “We want to expose what the South African press finds sensitive.”
I understand that you plan to publish hundreds of photos of gruesome murders – photos the press feel are too sensitive to publish.
Apparently you have not yet been affected by crime, but you feel it is inevitable that you will be.
I share your fears. I live in Johannesburg. When I moved here ten years ago, crime was of epidemic proportions. I have witnessed a gradual improvement and like many, felt that the police were winning the war on crime. Many shocking crimes this year have awakened fears that things are getting worse. I like you have escaped being a victim of crime, something I am profoundly grateful for.
I believe that it is foolish to bury one’s head in the sand and pretend crime in South Africa does not exist. I am aware that I live in a society with an abnormally and unacceptably high rate of crime. I believe that our criminal justice system is hopelessly overloaded, inefficient and ineffective. I believe that our country has a culture of ducking accountability and denial of deep issues.
I have posted entries on my weblog, http://itisthequestion.blogspot.com about some of the horrific crimes that have been committed over the last 6 months.
But I fundamentally disagree with your intentions. I love this country. I question whether you do.
I continue to witness the turnaround of this country from the one I grew up in.
In the early nineties, I together with many, wondered if this country would descend into civil war. I even lost friends to the terrorist attacks occurring at the time.
I chose to stay and contribute to our country’s rebirth and have watched as the success of its turnaround has gathered pace. Few could have imagined the miracle. As we stood in the queue to vote in the referendum to give transformation our “yes”. As we queued with millions voting for the first time. As we watched one of world’s greatest sons forgive his captors and wear the rugby jersey of a white captain at the 1995 world cup. As we watched Joshua Thugwane win gold at the Olympics. As we have watched our swimmers rule the world. And as our economy has leapt to life growing at 6%.
I have watched people return to South Africa after having emigrated to other countries. I have employed these people and encouraged others to return, always honestly providing an assessment of the dangers and the benefits of such a move.
I have also encouraged family and friends who have left because of crime. I have seen the effects of crime on a family’s psychology first hand as my cousin killed an intruder in his bedroom. I fully understood his emigration choice as he sought a new life where his family would feel safe again.
I also fully realise that should I one day be a victim of violent crime, I might also feel sufficiently threatened that I might seek the safety of foreign shores.
I encounter people daily on the internet who have left South Africa and feel bitter about having had to do so. I meet many more who are even more bitter that whilst they might wish to leave they are unable to do so.
But I also see those who have been victims of crime who have managed to move on and remain committed to this country. I hope that I manage to avoid crime, but should I not, I hope that I might exhibit their bravery.
This country will survive and prosper because of bravery, commitment and optimism. Of course honesty, accountability and consequence will also be crucial to that success.
But our country also requires much to be built. We require a moral regeneration. It will be built on education. Education will require wealth and wealth will require jobs.
This represents massive construction. More than that, a constructive spirit.
And that is what worries me about your project. It is by objective destructive. You wish to turn people away from South Africa. You might justify this as your means of attracting the government’s attention through external pressure. But as considerable as your effort is, I believe you have chosen an easy path. For it is always easier to be destructive than play a constructive role.
Our country needs constructive contributions. Indeed perhaps because of the lack thereof, our problems are that much greater today.
There are many ways to play a constructive role. From merely contributing productively to our economy, to volunteering some small contribution to our police force.
In fact almost any contribution will be less than that of the lives that many of our policemen and women have given so tragically in defence of our safety. Some of those stories can also be found on my weblog.
I have wondered what other means you have attempted to engage the problem before your current effort? And I wonder if your considerable effort might not find a better role?
Regards
ItIsTheQuestion
References:
Anti-crime campaign may scare 2010 visitors
SA crime website ‘must disgust’
IMC concerned about ‘negative’ crime website
New anti-crimeexpo sites / posts:
Hoox
The Unbroken Barometer
http://www.realsouthafrica.co.za
Crime Site Gets A Rival – IoL
JoBlog
Doug
July 17, 2006 at 6:47 pm
Hoox – thank you for the space afforded on your website .
It has been an experience I have enjoyed.
I have not posted anything on Neil’s website yet – and do not know Neil – but what he says is what I feel and so does many others.It is the point I have been trying to make – that it is morally wrong to entice tourists , take their money and not warn them about their safety – we live here – we know and try to protect ourselves and are constantly vigilant – we live behind frnces – in burglar barred houses – electric fences if we have the money – we watch our back when walking the streets – we know where not to go – we have become alert – we protect our family as best we can – because we know what is out there –
The floor is open to Neil Watson – this is what he is saying : -
“Owners of dangerous dogs have a responsibility to warn visitors planning to enter their private space. We as South Africans have a moral responsibility to warn internationals planning to enter our killing fields. Anyone who dares to ignore our undisputed 20 000 annual murder rate, disrespect those who are paying with blood in enabling tourism to thrive”
And Hoox – I do not know you – but I have read all the posts on this page -from your July 8th post – right down the page – and have read your reponses to all those with viewpoints that disagree with yours.
As for Nathan – your drivel is not worth reponding to – you sound like a South African Communist Party member that promotes democracy .
Doug
July 17, 2006 at 6:49 pm
Hoox – thank you for the space afforded on your website .
It has been an experience I have enjoyed.
I have not posted anything on Neil’s website yet – and do not know Neil – but what he says is what I feel and so do many others.It is the point I have been trying to make – that it is morally wrong to entice tourists , take their money and not warn them about their safety – we live here – we know and try to protect ourselves and are constantly vigilant – we live behind fences – in burglar- barred houses – electric fences if we have the money – we watch our back when walking the streets – we know where not to go – we have become alert – we protect our family as best we can – because we know what is out there –
The floor is open to Neil Watson – this is what he is saying : -
“Owners of dangerous dogs have a responsibility to warn visitors planning to enter their private space. We as South Africans have a moral responsibility to warn internationals planning to enter our killing fields. Anyone who dares to ignore our undisputed 20 000 annual murder rate, disrespect those who are paying with blood in enabling tourism to thrive”
And Hoox – I do not know you – but I have read all the posts on this page -from your July 8th post – right down the page – and have read your reponses to all those with viewpoints that disagree with yours.
As for Nathan – your drivel is not worth responding to – you sound like a South African Communist Party member that promotes democracy .
NRVS
July 18, 2006 at 4:44 am
I am also a little dissapointed with Nathan and Hoox’s efforts.
They ask a question – which I answer. I answer a question back and I’m either ignored (by hoox) or sidestepped (by nahtan).
It’s great feelign passionately about something, but unless you can back your perspective up, your opinion means very little.
hoox
July 18, 2006 at 5:21 am
Firstly to IITQ
I think what you have written is probably the most profound post so far in this entire debate. Thank you very much.
Doug, I thank you to for a very interesting debate. It’s high time these issues were addressed and more so, action taken. One question however that continues to be eluded is, “Where does Watson’s course of action take South Africa 10 years into the future if he is 100% successful?” I have said before, if it can be proven beyond doubt that his course is the right one and it will work, he gets my vote and I’m sure he will get all the support from all his “opposers”. Hell, make him president! I’m all for any legal, moral and ethical route to success. As you can see however, and I can only speak for myself, I for one am going to be a hard nut to crack as all I see is more misery and poverty as an outcome of his struggle. I’m afraid I to am a realist.
hoox
July 18, 2006 at 5:59 am
NRVS
I am not ignoring you. I am just getting tired of the same arguement over and over. But to make you feel a little less ostracised, I will repeat myself, again, for your benefit.
You ask, “Do you honestly think that foreign investment on its own will save this country? Do you think that all we need to do with this problem is to throw dollars and euros at it? Do you not think that foreign investment needs a stable platform in order to be effective?” I answer, No-not on its own, No-not all we need to do, Yes-stability is required. So far you will see that I am actually agreeing with most of what people have to say.
Now I ask YOU to answer MY questions which to date have not been answered effectively by anyone:
How is chasing people and international investment away and taking more away from the already poor going to do anything but create more misery and crime? How does Watson hope to achieve Utopia with his actions? How does he see SA in 10 years if his plan works. How is this going to create stability? I do hope he has thought a little beyond his fame and anger.
You mention economic sanctions. Do you really think the fat cats of the ex NP, Robert Mugabe or Saddam Hussein to name but a few suffered desperately during their eras of economic sanctions? I think we will agree that the poor suffered the most, AGAIN! So, effect? YES. Effectiveness? NO!
For the absolute last time – until the next time – I will say, YES, lets address the problems and actually DO something but let’s not make it worse.
At R3.00 per text, I hope Watson isn’t on a financial gain. Would be tempting wouldn’t it? As such a noble cause I hope he can produce financials to justify his new found income.
hoox
July 18, 2006 at 6:21 am
On the sideline, I am going to be away for a few weeks starting this afternoon. I urge people to continue the debate. I will not be able to make any contact during this time so please don’t think I am no longer interested.
Keep talking… Lets hear it.
NRVS
July 18, 2006 at 6:33 am
To be honest with you, Hoox, I couldn;t give much of a toss about Watson. I too believe he should have gone about his campaign in a far less sensationalist way. I am also not 100% convinced that his personal motivation for the campaign is entirely kosher. The proposed filing of a class action suit against the government smacks of self-publicity.
And I do understand what you are saying about the negative aspects of what the site will achieve. It makes sense to me that if the site does cause a drop in tourism that there will be impact at a very low level.
However, I do believe (and this is probably the only area where we disagree) that making the international community aware of the incompetence and indifference of our lawmakers will, ultimately, have the desired effect. And I believe that if there has to be a price to pay to achieve this goal, then so be it.
The government is failing its people in so many areas. I believe that the only way to get our politicians to pay attention to what the ENTIRE population has been screaming at them for 10 years is to expose the true symptoms of their inadequate leadership to the rest of the world.
Nathan Blows
July 19, 2006 at 7:55 am
NRVS and Doug
In response to your questions (Oh no…more “commie drivel” from Nathan)
In the last three weeks a group of people (including myself) have set up an organisation that has raised (in three short weeks) about R 350 000 (of which we kept R10 000 to cover running costs) – an amount we will be donating to various anti-crime initiatives and other similar drives in our country. We are doing this to help out those affected by crime and also in an effort to curb criminality and rehabilitate would be criminals. We will continue to do so.
We’ve put our money where our mouths are and are doing something to help better a negative situation – now do the same. And did someone say Communist – does that rubbish idea still exist?
Signing off for a while…
IITQ
July 21, 2006 at 1:03 pm
Nathan
I’m also doing some stuff.
The Gallo Manor police station (in Johannesburg) is fund raising at the moment to build two cells which would raise them from a satelite police station to full status and enable an increase in manpower. Contact me through my blog if you’re interested.
Nathan Blows
July 22, 2006 at 6:05 am
IITQ
I will do exactly that. Thank you for the heads up. Will contact you on Monday.
Jason
July 24, 2006 at 8:41 pm
Has nobody else noticed the massive cash cow his website has become? For every website, newspaper and radio station that publishes his garbage it sends more visitors to his site. He can coin it from advertisers now. I bet anti crime initiatives won’t see a cent of that revenue.
Doug
July 25, 2006 at 10:14 am
Yes Jason – maybe you can start an anti- anti crime website and get advertisers on there – maybe you can sell peace doves and advertise anti – crime initiatives .Maybe lawyers will advertise there – like ” Get out of jail within 2 months – even if you have murdered – we will show you how ”
Or yes – tourist agencies – they will pay – you can decry the anti-crime website – and then sell them advertising space.
Hows this – Don’t listen to Neil’s garbage – tourists who are mugged and attacked and shot and raped are only a small percentage of the total that come visit or missionaries sticking their nose where they don’t belong.
And those foreign dignitaries that got attacked after being in the country for three hours got away – not killed . What were they thinking walking in broad daylight 2 blocks from their hotel anyway .
At least they helped the locals and created some jobs.And the American tourists that were mugged – again only a small percentage – and that foreign production guy walking to the theatre after dark being shot through the head – he was carrying a computer man – and that tourist in intensive care and that foreign couple ………………………
jonny snyman
July 26, 2006 at 2:09 pm
I´m sick of crime the lack of freedom of speech and the dissability of goverment to handle criticism….not to talk about proudly south african.
You must wake and open you eyes something bad HAS to happen to get us out of this shithole!
Talking is not gonna help.
Why live with satans children!!!
July 26, 2006 at 2:24 pm
We do our best oversee to bring the facts about the crime about south africa because i´m not prepared to see my foreign friends brutally killed by some devil child.
Who rapes babies? – YOU KEEP BEING PROUDLY SOUTH AFRICAN TILL IT HAPPENS TO YOUR FAMILY….MABE THEN YOU UNDERSTAND.
It´s everybodies duty to inform the tourists about our sickness and evilness.
Sarel Van Tonder
July 29, 2006 at 3:31 pm
At first I thought this was a govt. disinformation site – now I am convinced it is. Our murder rate is level with the Iraqi casualties and they are at war!
Life in South Africa is very dangerous and you should be responsible enough to represent this, if you run a web site.
Taylor James
Doug
August 3, 2006 at 8:02 pm
Hey Jason – one time poster boy : FYI : -
In the past week, the British Foreign Office warned the more than 460 000 Britons who travel to South Africa annually about the high levels of crime in the country, including rape, murder, hijackings, muggings, theft and fraud.
Hillbrow and Berea in Johannesburg are described as high risk, and in Kwazulu-Natal tourists are warned to be vigilant at all times, especially in central Durban and beachfront areas. They are also warned against driving at night when visiting Northern Kwazulu-Natal and Zululand, as there have been incidents of hijackings and robberies, particularly on lonely secondary roads.
Isolated beach and picnic spots are also listed as dangerous, as well as Table Mountain in Cape Town, where some attacks on hikers have been particularly violent.
The Australia Tourist Commission warns its citizens visiting South Africa to maintain high levels of personal security awareness and remain vigilant.
“Robbery, armed assault, theft and pick-pocketing are prevalent, particularly in the centres of Cape Town, Durban, Johannesburg and Pretoria. “Car jackings, muggings, theft and pick-pocketing are common. Murders and rapes involving foreign tourists have been reported,” the commission said
Norwich Union, an insurance company in the United Kingdom, undertook a survey based on their clients’ travel insurance claims and found South Africa to be at the top of the list of countries for serious crime.
The survey said travellers to South Africa were the most likely to suffer violent robberies or lose their belongings in transit. South Africa has been earmarked as the country where tourists’ luggage goes missing most often and where the most crimes take place. David Ross, senior media relations manager at Norwich Union, said: “We are the UK’s largest insurance company. For the first time we looked at the claims we received from our customers and identified which countries and types of claims cropped up most frequently. South Africa was highest for claims made as a result of robbery with violence.”
It is people like you and previous posters like NRVS that have no conscience by bringing innocent tourists into this country for money and letting them loose in this jungle at the mercy of your South African comrades.
Just like your lack of conscience – so the criminals lack of conscience allows the chaos to grow.
At least now – they can make informed decisions – because of websites allowing them and their governments which look after their citizens aware of what is going on here.
OMG
August 5, 2006 at 5:55 am
To the person who calls ALL South African’s Satan’s children I just wanted to say………YOU DO REALISE THIS IS A SA WEBSITE and your comment is not only juvenile it actually insults everyone in this debate including yourself and besides wanting to run a quick spell check through your paragraph of complete drivel…. where in Gods holy name are you actually living overseas? It can’t be anywhere where information is readily available because you wouldn’t make stupid comments that make you look like a twat on purpose, would you?
So I thought I would just send you this link
Click on it and have a quick read…
“Who rapes babies?” let me tell you mate it happens everywhere
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/beds/bucks/herts/4599524.stm
And that was just the first thing that came up on a random search engine search….Jeepers Creepers and they are WHITE…and and and can you believe they are ENGLISH too. Maybe you should warn your friends not to go to the UK too, that would really be useful!
But I am sure they would never doubt someone like you who CLEARLY has done their homework and wouldn’t call themselves a devil child by mistake…ooooooor maybe you are one of our “special” cases who can’t read, or write…or spell and who believes everything they are told and lives in a trailer? Believe me…you are one of the people this site is actually trying to help!!! And if you are making it your solemn duty to relay facts back to your foreign friends in southern Mongolia (or where ever you are) about SA, quit while you are ahead, you are making yourself look stupid.
Arrie
August 9, 2006 at 1:11 am
Mbeki also doesn’t think there is a problem in South Africa.
Arrie
ADO
August 9, 2006 at 10:07 am
I would like to post a couple of links that might interest those South Africa hating “South Africans”.
As posted by the British Commonwealth Office (Updated today!):
Travel Advice by Country : Look – SA is not listed as a “no go” country. Not even a warning! Damn that Tony Blair. He and Thabo Mbeki must be conspiring against the world!
South Africa: “More than 460,000 Britons visit South Africa annually. Most visits are trouble-free.” Could almost half a million Britons have a bit of street sense?
Travel and Leisure: Ohh lookie!SA has jumped from #8 to #6. And Im sure Beirut was ranked before the missile slinging started.
Thank you ADO for the links!
hoox
August 14, 2006 at 6:40 am
Sarel Van Tonder – AKA Taylor James.
Please allow me with all due respect to make one or two comments on your posting.
“At first I thought this was a govt. disinformation site – now I am convinced it is.” – Where on earth do you get off saying that? Is being pro-South African and voicing opinions now considered govt. disinformation? If you want to see a true example of disinformation, why don’t you visit Neil Watson’s site and make a comment there – Oh but it will cost you!
“Our murder rate is level with the Iraqi casualties and they are at war!” – Hmmm lets look at that. There’s a great saying, “Rather keep your mouth shut and let people assume you are an idiot than open your mouth and confirm it”. You have absolutely ZERO idea what you are talking about. I’m not about to go into gory details with numbers etc of exactly how many deaths there are per day in Iraq as I don’t think that’s necessary and is not morally sensitive however I think it’s appalling that you can even think of comparing SA with Iraq’s sectarian violence and ethnic cleansing. Get your facts straight before you make sensationalist remarks.
“Life in South Africa is very dangerous and you should be responsible enough to represent this, if you run a web site.” – Not once did I say it was as safe as an uninhabited tropical island in the middle of nowhere. Please read all comments before implying that I’m being irresponsible for having a point of view.
Taylor James – aka Sarel Van Tonder??
Malan
August 18, 2006 at 4:24 pm
Hi people! I also started a website against Crime Expo SA. Go to http://WWW.TRUECRIMEXPO.CO.ZA !! I’m only 17 years old… but really did some extensive research on this topic. I came to the conclusion that Crime Expo SA is one-sided… it’s also a fact that there’s many lies on it!… and I exposed some of it!
I also think that it’s totally irresponsible for Watson to damage SA’s tourism industry. If you look at the facts, you’ll see that very little tourists are victims of crime in SA. Watson is also unrealistic. He says he’ll only stop with his campaign when the murder rate drop by 75% (or to 5000 per year). Will SA accomplish that in the next 10 years? I doubt it. So are we going to tell people not to invest in SA for 10+ years? It’ll only lead to more poverty and more crime. I don’t see Watson’s site as a solution!
Please visit my site and tell me what you think: http://www.truecrimexpo.co.za !
Doug
August 20, 2006 at 5:22 pm
You poor little boy – please grow up – when you do you will be ashamed of yourself for your website and your idealistic views.
The day you have a child – or the day one member of your family experiences violent crime is the day you wake up to the realities of life in South Africa.
Please try to READ and DIGEST the posts on this forum and the daily reports in the local papers with the same energy that you have put into your website.
I do understand that you don’t know any better but I assure you – we are not living in a normal society – and if you for one minute think that any other country TOLERATES the rape and murders of children and the prison sentences handed out to cop killers and murderers you are just as naive as OMG who posted a few posts above.
OMG – no one is denying that evil is worlwide and that other countries have murders and crime – its just that they are not tolerated and the evil perpetrators are brought to book .
As a recent judgement statement declared by a SA judge when sentencing a man for two rapes – ” As you are a first time offender and comitted two rapes – one after the other – you are not a repeat offender and therefore 15 years jail sentence will suffice”
Or the 13 year jail sentence for a man that shot and killed a policeman ( father of three ) .
The list goes on and on .
But please – both Malan and OMG – do us a favour and it will help you guys a lot in your mindset – take a walk after dark on a National Road for around 30 minutes – or take a walk with your buddies through a township at night Malan – or even in Joburg central – and tell your fellow South Africans you meet what a patriot you are and how happy you are to meet them and how traitors are trying to fool tourists that its not safe to walk the streets in sunny SA .
OMG
August 20, 2006 at 6:42 pm
Hi Doug
You, my friend, are one angry angry angry man!
Firstly, who walks on the National Roads at night anywhere in the world? Secondly I have lived in Joburg for 7 years and I love the night life in JOBURG central this place you are so scared of, and I have spent many days and nights getting lost and asking for directions. I have never experienced any sort of problem, and I am a white woman.
Also I have worked in townships at night and during the day, doing events for the poorest people in our country and one thing I can tell you is that I KNOW for a fact that you have never even tried and are the ONE speaking from a completely naive position. If you had you would know that its the most overwhelming experience, its humbling and humiliating at how paranoid we are and how welcoming and hospitable these people have been to me and my work mates and friends. You are treated like royalty and you are by no means something special, there are plenty of whites that like the vibe and love going through for a jol. The only difference is the culture shock at first and the fact that we are a lot more conservative than them, but once you drop the whole chicken shit bravado you will have the best time on earth.
Don’t dis people who are trying to be positive…just coz you haven’t be laid in a while, encourage people to have their views and if you are a friend of ol’ Niel Watson, and you respect his views then you have to allow other to have the same.
AND once more for the record NO ONE IS SAYING IT IS NOT A FUCKING HUGE PROBLEM…CRIME!! All we are saying is that by damaging it more you will create more.
Now run along, pour yourself a glass of red wine (or a brandy and coke by the sounds of it) sit back and possibly have a little fiddle with yourself…stop being such and angry bastard and I promise you will feel much better.
Nathan Blows
August 24, 2006 at 1:08 pm
Doug, Doug, Doug.
Malan is highlighting the crime in a on-sensationalist, level headed way with sources to back up his statements.
Oh, I forgot – you must induce fear and mass hysteria to be successful in highlighting an issue.
That type of propoganda is no different from the government’s denialists.
Does the following sentiment, uttered by that twisted German turd, Herman Goering, not seem to be echoed in the CrimeExpo, SouthAfricaIsCrap and the AfricaCrisis type sites?
“…the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country.” – Hermann Goering at Nuremberg on 18th April, 1946
A furore has surrounded the launch of the new crime exposure website (and subsequent southafricaiscr*p and africancrisis type sites and blogs) claiming to expose the truth about the crime situation in South Africa. People on both sides of the debate are running around frantically trying to convince the public of their version of the truth.
Perversely, the main casualty in what should be a very serious debate is truth itself as both sides have become adept at wielding the sceptre of convenient morality and dubious fact.
On the one side of the crime divide we have members of our government denying the claims of rampant crime in our society. On the other, we have members of the citizenry claiming that we are turning into a corrupt crime ridden war-zone led by a quasi-Zimbabwean cabinet.
One member of government has told the whiners to ship off if they are not happy here and the Crimexpo-Southafricaiscr*p-Africancrisis brigade will have you know that you will be killed within ten seconds of stepping out of your home (guaranteed) – everywhere in South Africa. Both these views are skewed, unrealistic and untruthful.
Crime is our nemesis and no amount of spin doctoring from either side will solve a very real and serious problem affecting the lives of many South Africans.
There is no acceptable crime level. One rape, assault or murder per 100 000 people is unacceptable – it is one too many.
How will either approach provide a solution? The Denialists won’t admit to a solution for a problem that doesn’t exist. The SouthAfrica-Is-Turning-Into-Zimbabwe camp will claim that the websites and blogs they have set up is the answer “because we are letting the world know how violent South Africa is and people are starting to talk about the crime.”
Talk is cheap. Meanwhile people are being killed, raped, hijacked and mugged. Solutions need to be found in the real world – not around the coffee table. And we shouldn’t solve the crime problem because the World Cup is coming to SA either. We need to solve the crime problem because it is the right thing to do and it needs to be done – for us, for our children and for our future as a people.
When you question the various role players concerning their solutions (or lack thereof) the There-Is-No-Crime party will staunchly declare “Crime. What crime?”
Meanwhile, the SouthAfricaIsCr*p-CrimeRidden-AndInACrisis team will knit their brows and question your intelligence by comparing it to an ape or a dolphin, call you a failed leftist politician and utter in dulcet tones: “Just wait until someone rapes your daughter or something bad happens to you.”
You may even be called wonderfully childish names by Anonymous (who comes across as a schizophrenic, paranoid drug user) on an internet forum and be informed that, because you question their dubious actions, certain individuals are “tracing you” in the grand tradition of Apart-Hate (after they declare that things were better when Apart-Hate was around). If you’re lucky you may even be called a Liberal.
What do you call a person who lies to promote an evil agenda? A liar.
What do you then call a person who lies to further a good cause? A liar?
If you lied to protect the Jews you were safely harboring from the Nazis in World War Two, it would be perfectly understandable and acceptable.
However, when you lie to the public by denying the seriousness of the crime problem or lie by sensationalizing our crime situation in South Africa you inflict damage upon a cause that needs serious, truthful, objective and level headed sustainable solutions.
Bart Henderson has already confirmed the fraudulent use of pictures on the site. Also, some of the pictures currently and previously available on the site were also shared between CESA, the SouthAfricaIsCrap blog, the racist Jan Lamprecht’s AfricanCrisis site and the white supremacy site Rense among others. Now more than ever it is also becoming apparent the suuport the site seems to be garnering from other white supremacy, Aryanism sites with it being quoted/linked from Christianparty.net, Rense again and the National Vanguard sites.
So too I came across a posting on the website taken from the White Civil Rights and National Vanguard sites, taking a swipe at both blacks and Jews – I though the site was about crime, not blacks and Jews.
I have no time for the white supremacy/Aryan following idiots who spout some seriously questionable facts and twist truths to suit their views (Neither do I have time for the racist elements on the other side of the coin be they white, black, coloured, yellow, pink whatever)
The global community is being asked to judge whose actions are correct and to act accordingly. However, this case needs to be thrown out and a fresh, truthful one needs to take its place. One cannot make a decision that will lead to a genuine solution based on a) no evidence or b) untruthful evidence.
Bulelani
September 8, 2006 at 6:30 pm
I recently congradulated this dude (Neil) for the Effort but told him that he must consider tonning down racial connotations coming from his readers in what he published and referenced my experience with some Crime just to make a point that it is not racially influenced as his followers suggest as i’m black and it happened to me!
Any way this dude spun my e-mail to him and published it as “Black South African is parking to London because of violent crime”, to suit his ambitions.
I have already asked him to remove this as it was not foreseeable on my part that he would publish this as i was merely reporting comments that were hurtful and not pleasant to an Ordinary and hard working Black South African
Bulelani
September 8, 2006 at 7:01 pm
This Neil dude is even more ambitious than everyone thought!
He’s not really reporting OR exposing anything as he did’nt even look twice at my story just published the whole thing because i said i will be moving!
Lots of his readers are Pretoria, Pietermaritzburg bound and are all Afrikaans and filled with very offinsive foul and racial comments.
I have a lot of Afrikaans friends and i’m afraid they dont like him very much my i seek legal advice what actions should i raise against him for posting my e-mail complaint as a published story to his website!!
David Vorster
September 16, 2006 at 11:32 am
Hi,
I just posted this on my blog (bloodsuckinginsects.blogspot.com). It refers to this post so I thought it would be good manners to copy it here for your benefit.
CrimeExpoSouthAfrica
I’ve been meaning to write a post on the CrimeExpoSouthAfrica website for a while now. When I read this post on the Passport Thrasher blog today, I decided to spring into action. Generally the blog and its comments slate the CrimExpoSouthAfrica website.
Some of the points made are good ones.
* Crimexpo should allow opposing comments on their site
* I certainly don’t condone the racist comments or undertones.
* At times objectivity is lost
* The last thing we need is to discourage tourists, our economy needs them
………actually I could go on about things on this website that bother me but I think they have already been said elsewhere.
However, CrimExpoSouthAfrica is not all bad. In fact I would say on balance, it does more good than harm. Here is why.
Their aim of putting pressure on the South African politicians is one I couldn’t agree more with. I believe that the problem will not be brought under control without radical intervention by the politicians. So far there have been few signs that they are interested in taking far-reaching action.
I also get the idea that many South Africans have grown used to the crime and have in a way accepted that they’ll have to live with it. That is a very bad thing as crime will never go away if we start to accept it. Again CrimExpoSouthAfrica has successfully raised awareness of the issue.
And if anyone doubts whether crime in South Africa really is that bad, I can assure you it is. There are few more dangerous places to live on this planet, countries at war included. See my Perspective on Progress post. I can say this objectively without exaggerating.
I intend to start a campaign of action against crime shortly. I would however never take action that deliberately targets the South African people. Instead I think we need to target the politicians directly…….but this post is getting a bit long so more on that later.
So my message to those opposing CrimExpoSouthAfrica:
Rather use you energy to help fight the problem of crime.
JJadro
September 16, 2006 at 12:27 pm
Good manners?
Or good advertising for your blog?
heheheh
David Vorster
September 16, 2006 at 1:05 pm
Both I suppose but I read that you should always copy your full post so people don’t have to visit your site if they don’t want to.
Bulelani
September 19, 2006 at 5:18 pm
There’s something not kosher about the Neil Watson’s website as if you completely oppose some comments and stories posted to his website, then your comment/blog will be deleted, now tell me whether that is objective??
At least some international people are starting to view Neil and his fans as RACISTS and just making money, as every comment in it at least contains a certain racial connotation attached to every 1/3 bloggers on line!
That site now is becoming a broken record and has no Objectivity whatsoever!
J
September 21, 2006 at 4:45 pm
It’s pretty clear Neil does’t hate this country. Who could? He doesn’t hate the people either. He hates the CRIME. If people read his site without some preconceived idea that he is South Africa’s answer to the Anti-Christ, then they might actually notice this. I agree that there are a few ‘dodgy’ posts however, and it’s a pity that they can’t be edited out.
Bulelani, if you write to Neil, he’ll publish it. You would pick this up if you were familiar with the site. I’m surprised he spun your mail as you said though. I’m an avid follower of the site (I even had a run-in with Andy, haha) but I think if it starts to get supficial and sensationalist, it’ll lose all credibility.
Malan
November 11, 2006 at 6:37 am
Neil Watson has been caught out! He’s in fact Juan Uys, president of the Gay and Lesbian Association. The police also seized child pornography at his premises in 1999 and he owned a massage parlor. It’s a true victory for South Africans that Neil Watson has been eliminated. How many South Africans believe in a hysterical, destructive website based on sensation, lies and even blatant racism?
Visit
1. http://www.truecrimexpo.co.za/exposed.JPG
2. http://www.truecrimexpo.co.za/exposed1.JPG
3. http://www.truecrimexpo.co.za/exposed2.JPG
4. http://www.truecrimexpo.co.za/citizen.pdf
for articles that appeared in the newspapers… My site will be updated with the latest articles as soon as they are released.
Regards,
Malan
http://www.truecrimexpo.co.za
crimexposouthafrica
November 11, 2006 at 11:29 pm
He is the worst form of low life you could image
Need proof
crimexposouthafrica.wordpress.com
Nathan Blows
November 17, 2006 at 1:13 pm
New controversy hits embattled crime website
Claims of ’foul’ after big expose into site aimed at foreigners
The controversial website highlighting crime in South Africa has run into a new storm of controversy.
The international coordinator of the site has cried foul and issued legal letters after a string of damaging claims.
It was claimed in a weekend newspaper expose that the website’s coordinator could be linked to an equally controversial gay and lesbian organization; that the previous incarnation of the site had not been hacked as claimed but that the website had not paid its former internet service provider and that the owner of the website had paid someone to hack a rival website.
The allegations unleashed a barrage of counter-claims and legal summonses.
Since its inception this crime website, named crimexposesouthafrica, has been haunted by allegations of rightwing links, racism and defamation.
The website’s backers responded with a counter statement from all those accused and summons letters to various newspapers, media groups and individuals have been issued.
The chief whistle-blower on the site’s activities was an employee who was removed from the site after being accused of having extreme right wing sympathies. It was also claimed that she had, on several occasions, been requested to stop publishing extremist posts.
She also stands accused of having received funds on behalf of the website and being responsible for deleting information from the website.
Now some commentators believe that the latest drama may be the death knell for the website. Many have had reservations about the website and its stated aims to force the government to reduce crime by highlighting the South African crime situation to the rest of the world.
It certainly grabbed international attention, but it has been criticized for not doing anything to help reduce crime.
When reduced to its base level the site is nothing more than a collection of crime stories, copied and pasted from various online news sources. Where this site differs from the normal news sources is that it only concentrates on crime.
One post to the site reads: “Africa, largely due to the ignorance, stupidity and skewed mindset of the African, has become a global joke, failed experiment; a symbol of no hope on the most backward species of human this planet has ever known, a genus of person that apart from a few interesting jazz lyrics and sports titles, has contributed little else of value to mankind. It clearly shows that trying to uplift these people with programs such as affirmative action and ’be nice to The African’ is futile; it’s all effort, money pi**ed against the wall”.
“Don’t worry Raymond Ackerman; if they could get to one of your fat cats, then chances are they can get to you. What tune will you sing then my money grabbing friend?” – After a Pick and Pay staff member had been killed.
“I love this!!!!!! I love it when the denialists get shafted… I wish this would happen to Raymond, FW and a few newspaper editors I can think of.” – Referring to Nadine Gordimer being robbed.
“I was sure that given time, Pieter Boshoff (aka Riaan aka ID10t) would hang himself.” – Speaking of Pieter Boshoff from a rival website.
Another post: “Blacks and coloureds are the biggest bums alive…”
The above are just some of the choice comments users post on the site. Is it any wonder that a backlash would be imminent? A website that allows these types of comments can hardly turn around and cry “Defamation!” nor can they claim some kind of moral high ground in this debate.
A valiant attempt to delete these comments has been made but as a result of the website’s success, you can still view these and other comments using Google cached pages. Screen shots of theses also come in handy.
It appears that the website’s popularity may also be its chief downfall. Those behind the website are also very adept at posting the personal information of those who disagree with their stance on the World Wide Web. When I last checked, that was an illegal practice.
These websites will eventually fail. Why?
Anyone who has read “With Criminal Intent – The Changing Face Of Crime In South Africa” (Ampersand Press) by Rob Marsh and Crime in South Africa: A Country and Cities Profile by Martin Schönteich & Antoinette Louw (Institute for Security Studies) will know that the serious and escalating crime problem in South Africa is a multi-headed Hydra – cut off one head and two, three or four more grow in its place.
There are more than 12 causes for crime in South Africa and not one of the crime websites addresses those causes. As a result, they are doomed to fail. They have, however, got one thing right. The government needs to step in, equip the police, tighten up current crime laws and address all the causes of crime. Long term, sustainable solutions need to be found.
If not, we may yet become the next Zimbabwe that many are predicting.
http://www.reporter.co.za/newszone/article.aspx?ID=RP21A320976
putri-bali
December 26, 2008 at 1:23 am
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